I was just cruising the web and came across a statement that said that the term “Ace” is (was) frowned upon by the RAF (at least during the Battle of Britain).
Has anyone heard of this before?
stinger
Stinger,
I read an article not too long ago on this very subject. it was RAF policy not to acknowledge aces as it would bring attention to those pilots and they would be seen too much as individuals. A very non-english concept I guess. I guess they said somthing to the effect that “glory-seekers” were frowned apon. I guess “ace” is just another jockish american point of view 
I think it’s healthy competition to have your aces, gives the others somthin’ to strive for!
Edikiz - Glad to know that someone else has heard of this. Actually, I had never thought about it until I read that article. The Luftwaffe certainly admired their Aces, as do Americans, but after reading about the Brits, it occurred to me that I have never heard of any British Aces. I guess they just consider it part of their duty, and so, put no one person above another by giving them a certain “title”. As you have said though, it does sound very non-English (the British version). Why the heck do they “Knight” people then?
I wonder if any other countries acknowledge the title of Ace?
Anyone, anyone???..Bueller?
stinger
BTW Edikiz
Welcome to the forum!!! [#welcome]
There have been very many British Aces, even though the term was frowned upon. In the Battle of Britain Douglas Bader was proably the most famous. After the battle of britain there were several famous aces as well, such as Johnnie Johnson.
Another interesting note- americans defined ace as anyone with 5 kills or more. The german version of aces were the “Experten”. This was defined as anyone with more than 10 victories- apparently they were a bit more stringent with their requirements.
I guess they could be a little more picky. Erich Hartman had 352 kills while Dick Bong had 40…
Read an interesting book long ago (wish I could remember the title, may have been “Horrido!” or something like that) that compared a leading American Ace (sorry, forgot who, though he had 25+ victories) with one of Germanys leading aces (again, forgot who, but he had 100+ victories). In comparing their records side by side for their first 25 victories, the American ace took less time to score his kills than the German experten. The point was that the German aces were not necessarily better than the US (or British, Soviet, French, etc.) but they achieved their high scores by flying front line the entire war, where Allied aces were rotated out after a tour or two. The Germans also, as Germans are wont to do, had stricter rules for awarding a kill than the Allied air forces. The book pretty much successfully debunked the myth that German pilots scores were artificially inflated, an argument you still hear occasionally to explain Hartman and others scores compared to Allied aces.
I found this site this morning which has quite a bit of interesting info about everything mentioned above regarding the Luftwaffe. Click on the “Scoring and Awards” and “Claims Procedures” buttons.
http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/index.htm
stinger
I believe the restriction actually started in the RFC during WW I
The RAF disliked the term ‘Ace’ as they felt that it undermined squadron unity, by focussing on an individual, rather than the effort of the team as a whole.
That didn’t stop the press hailing the likes of Bader and Stanford-Tuck as such during the BoB. In fact the RAF’s first nationally recognised ace was Cobber Cain during the Battle of France.
Karl
Karl - Thanks for that info from your side of the Pond.
I gather from what you say, that the RAF in particular frowned on the idea, but I imagine that the general public would attach themselves to it. I can’t imagine it as being otherwise. I’ve seen pics of English farmers in their fields with the contrails of dogfighting in the skies overhead.
It seems to me that keeping score on such things would add to the element of competitiveness, which is quite necessary in a time of war. In all the stories I’ve read from recollections of fighter pilots, I can’t think of a single one where competition with the adversary didn’t add to their drive to succeed, driven by the convictions of each pilots beliefs (which is why they were at war to begin with) and their will to survive. With that said however, let us not forget the chivalry and honor displayed between pilots, often at the oddest of times.
stinger
Yup, it did start in WW1. I just finished reading a book by J.T.B. McCudden, one of the leading aces in the RFC/RAF in ww1, and he mentions the fact that the “brass” did not like to call attention to an individual flyer. Just wasn’t Cricket, old boy !!