Thanks Mike.
I dont know a great deal about the the Aeronautica Nazionale Republicana or the Italian Co-Belligerent Airforce. I recently picked up a copy of Regia Aeronautica Vol.2 and was reading some info from this book which clearly displays the Fiat with the 18-1 markings. This raised the question about the Veltro also displaying the same markings.
Thanks for the input.
You certainly can take the time and effort to turn these toys into a decent replica. Trowel all the panel lines over and scribe new ones at a decent depth and scale width and fix all the other little wrinkles needed to render them sufficently toy-like in appearance and your good to go.
My comments are directed at folks who seem to think they can pop them together and call it a model. We’ve got a couple of folks who like to bring them to club meetings and my opinion is the same face to face. If you want something to hang from your ceiling that’s all well and good just don’t pretend it’s a scale model aircraft unless you’ve put in the work to make it one.
O.K, I recently measured the width of the panel lines on the 205 Veltro. They measure .01. In 1/32 scale. That is the equivalent of the panel line gaps measuring .031. The depth I couldnt get a good read on.
1/32 = .0312 dived by 32 = .00975 This makes the true scale size gap measure at 1/32 not 1/2 an inch.
I was giving some thought about these kits this morning on my drive to work. There has been some discussion in other threads about kits to help get young people get interested in the hobby. These kits may be one route. They are relatively inepensive, can be built up easily or with as much attention to detail as you please.
As a starter kit they would be good as many basic techniques can be learned from them. We will find some error in almost any kit we buy, but we still build them. I have my pet peeves about this kit as it is basically a late model M.C. 202 and not a true production model M.C. 205. The more accurate Pacific Hobbies M.C. 205 is where I’ll go for a more definitve kit of this aircraft. My biggest peeve with Italain aircraft is that you cannot find a correct set of decals for the squadron names for the Co-Belligerent P-39Q’s in 1/48! And those decals are made by what is considered top notch companies.
just my [2c]
Mike T.
I agree completly with your response. This dcapone11 fella should lighten up a bit and let everyone enjoy the hobby at their own level. If buy it, build it, and am happy with it I enjoyed the experience. Personally I don’t want to spend a month or more to build a museum quality model to sit on the shelf and collect dust. Let me build a kit in a few days and enjoy it. There is room in this hobby for every skill level and people who knock others because they don’t live up to their lofty standards just hurt the hobby in the long run.
My callculations where off! [%-)] .0009 would give the panel lines a 1/32 width. At .01 at 1/32 the panel lines would be about 1/4 in gap.
Question-
Why quote G Gordon Liddy?
Isn’t he just a convicted felon with an ego, rather than anyone who should be held in decent reagards? Choosing to quote such a person may be a slightly insulting thing to persons, who unlike him, choose to live correctly- rather than trying to impose their lives and politics on the rest.
Thanks
I didn’t know I was being “not lightened up”. We all enjoy different aspects of the hobby for different reasons. That’s no reason not to share ideas and opinions. Surely you’re not suggesting that we’re all supposed to agree on all aspects of the hobby??
There’s no reason to get defensive just because I have a different opinion from you on a particular subject. I’ll still voice my opinion and respect the responsibility for others to voice their opinion as well. That’s the rock upon which this country was founded upon.
So go back and play nice with your toys. (just kidding on that one, honest. It just struck me as a good funny closing line.)
dcaponeII , I hope you werent taking my post as a jab at your opinions.
I’m simply trying to tackle this 21st century project and Im posting my findings along the way.
I agree that we are all entitled to our own views.
Can anyone give me an accurate gap width for the macchi panel lines? .250 sound much too wide? Would .125 be more reasonable?
spiralcity
Aluminum sheet on a/c are usually installed in one of two ways - overlapped or butt jointed (end to end). Overlapping adds drag to the airframe but is much easier and quicker to fabricate and install. Butt jointing on the other hand, reduces drag but takes more time to fabricate and install. However, if not properly done, the butt jointed surfaces can actually cause more drag than the overlapped surfaces. Ideally, a butt jointed surface will have no gap - it can be done (the Hughes Racer is a prime example) but takes a lot of time and is usually all done by hand which isn’t an option if you’re trying to mass produce something. So the idea is to make the gaps as small as possible within the limits of the production line.
So what you try to achieve is a gap of .030 or less between adjoining sheets coming off the assembly line. So I would recommend .030 for the maximum width for your calculations. The depth of the gap would be equivalent to the thickness of the adjoining sheets. Depending on the aircraft and location on the aircraft, that could be anywhere from .020 thru .080 used for the fuselage (the small the a/c, the thinner the skin - remember weight is also consideration). I don’t think you would be off to use .030 or .040 for your calculations.
Hope this helps a little.
qmiester ,
Thanks for the useful info.
A .03 gap would have me scibing lines at .0009 for 1/32 scale.
Thats pretty thin. [}:)]
My point exactly. But all models suffer form this scale problem on panel lines. What bugs me about these 21st century kits is the softness of the lines. They don’t look like crisp panel lines of the type you find in a high quality modern 1/32 scale kit. That lack of crispness just makes them look toylike to me. It adds to the impression that the panel lines are much too wide and deep for the scale.
The whole calculation of scale panel lines really makes one think about how much effort we put into making them obvious on the model. I’m doing a F-101C conversion right now and I was worried about the raised lines on the kit vs the subtle engraved lines on the resin fuselage plug. I’m now going to go for a more subtle effect than on a typical WWII aircraft and see how it turns out. 0.0009" starts to be below the unaided aid for resolution.
We just all have to keep building what we like to build.
I wont be able to scribe 9 tenths thin lines. I’ll have to shoot for about .002 or slightly bigger. it should look much better with the new panel line.
I should be able to make this plane into something worth looking at. It will just take some time and effort. I still have the spinner issue. I havent decided on how i’ll tackle this problem.
Yes, 21st Century “models” have scale problems but it seems to me that folks are expecting too much. I consider the kits as part toy, part model- kinda like a mutation of the old Monogram and Aurora stuff in the days of my youth. I haven’t built for a couple of decades so the kits will be good practice.
I don’t need to remove GIGANTIC rivets like the old Revell kits and won’t need to take out a second mortgage on the house if I botch a paint job and want another kit. Their decals are the best part!
I intend to use my 202 and 205 kits as airbrush practice in preparation for when I get around to building the Pacific Models 205 kit-hopefully sometime before I hit 90 yrs. !
The 202 kit does need work to make it better- but save up for the more expensive kit if you want perfection. You’ll save yourself a lot of work and time in the long run.
In my opinion, taking the time and effort to build a nice replica is the FUN part about modeling. I like scratch buliding and reworking bad detail.
This kit can be turned into a very nice plane. I have no doubt about that.
Well it must be a dark day because the third place winner in this contest was a 21st century kit.
http://www.ipms-phx.org/contest/2007/modelzona2007/Results/150.htm
Well just to add my 2 cents. We all the know the saying opinions are just like [censored] and everybody has one. i beleive build what ever you like the way you like to. Inacurrate out of scale to many rivets it does’nt matter just enjoy what you are building because that it the whole object of this hobby. In our high tech model world it is easy to lose sight of this. I myself fell into this area where every build had to be perfect or i was not happy. Then one day I realized I was not enjoying building as much anymore. So i pulled out an old Tamiya A6M2 Zero and just build it OOB with the thick kit decals and everything. I finished it in two weeks and i enjoyed every minute of it. So if a $12.00 kit makes you happy then build that baby! if you prefer more detail and accuracy then grab the Pacific Coast MC205. Point being there are many levels to this hobby even when you restrick it to just the airplane forum. My building tastes change drasticly from model to model. I spent six months building the Classic Airframes 1/48 Lockheed Model 14, but for my next build I grabbed a Tamiya 1/48 Me 109 E 3 and build it in two weeks. Anyhoo like I said just my 2 cents!
Soulcrusher