Okay, here’s one for the “stupid question” pile, but I’m scratching my head at what would be the best method of approaching this.
I’m at the point of assembling/installing the bowsprit on my Heller Soleil Royal. A slight dilemma has arisen. According to the instructions, the blocks that hang from the bowsprit run through holes in the two halves, with a knot holding them in place from inside both of the halves. What would be the best approach to painting this assembly without getting paint on the rigging for the blocks? I could pre-paint the area around the holes, then assemble the parts and then sand/paint the rest of it. That’s the only thing I could think of besides just running the lines completely through both sides and not worrying about tying them off, but I wasn’t sure.
Any suggestions?
Oh, JTilley, I did look into getting some aftermarket blocks/deadeyes for the kit but found that right now it is a little expensive. I wish I could have because the ones I looked at would have looked great on the kit. So what I did instead was use my trusty dremel one evening to actually cut grooves in the kit blocks. A little time consuming, but it worked out well.
Maybe you should forget about using the holes in the bowsprit halves for attaching the blocks. Why not tie them around the bowsprit, just as it would have been done on the real ship!?
I had thought about that, just fill the holes and tie them around it. I’m doing a little research, as soon as my book “rigging ships in the days of the spritsail topmast” comes in. I’m wondering if the lines for those blocks was actually embedded into the bowsprit or not. I’ve seen some instances where this has been the case.
I’m probably going to end up doing it that way, just tie them around the assembly. But I will say that using the holes would lend a very clean look.
As for the build itself, this kit is a blast to work on. It goes together so easy and the plastic takes paint real well. I’m in the middle of all the gold detail work and I’ve never had so much fun. The hull should be done in about three months. Then it’s on to the masts and figuring out all the rigging. All the debate about the accuracy of this kit aside, I highly recommend it. It’s absolutely beautiful and my wife might actually let me use it as a mantlepiece decoration in the living room.
Yeah, I have that one already. It is a beaut. Mine isn’t exactly like that. I’m using some artwork I’ve found that has the entire hull Royal blue as a reference. The solid colour is striking. I’m just now working on the guilding. I’ll send you an email and/or post here if I feel it looks decent enough.
Where? I don’t see how an consumable item like the block would be replaced in routine maintenance if it were semi-embeded into a non-consumable item like a bowsprit. At best, an eyebolt would be embeded into the bowsprit shaft and the blocks would be seized to the eye bolt. More liklely the block strop would simply be tied around the shaft, with some provision for keeling the stroping from slipping along the shaft. On sailing ships, the overriding design objective for all rigging items is the ease of replacement while the ship is underway.
Well, I guess they thought that in this way the blocks ended up in the right place and reduced the change of being forgotten all together. Looks like a trade off between accuracy and convenience.
I actually am doing a similar thing on some of my blocks on the plastic Revell Constitution. I clipped off the plastic “strop” from the kit block, then took a needle file and filed in a groove around the edges of the block, then strung my own strop, and used it for some of the standing rigging. It’s not bad looking. Still, I think the kit blocks are a bit too large to be in scale, and they need to be painted so they don’t look so much like plastic.
I also have sprung for a couple of packages of Model Shipways maple blocks, just to see what they will look like, but using these through and through for a big model would certainly add up. They do look awfully square around the edges. Some one somewhere mentioned rounding the edges of these off by putting these blocks into a coffee can lined with sandpaper and rotating it using a dremel. Anyone try that before, and is it worth the effort?
I believe ModelExpo buys its blocks from several European manufacturers, whose quality varies quite a bit. Some of the deadeyes I’ve bought from them are quite nice; they’re made of European walnut (which is quite a bit finer in grain than the American variety). But I some of the lighter colored blocks do look pretty coarse.
My personal favorites are the britannia metal blocks from Bluejacket. They cost about the same, have excellent proportions, and, because they’re cast in rubber moldes, have holes through them and grooves around them. Mr. Gonzales is right: a full outfit of blocks for a full-rigged ship costs a bundle. But there’s no need to order them all at once. I generally buy three or four dozen at a time, and when I get down to a dozen I send in another order. (Bluejacket’s mail order service is excellent.)
Regarding the Heller concept of bowsprit rigging, all I can contribute is a repetition of what I’ve said before. The designers of that kit didn’t know that yards are supposed to be fastened to masts - and anybody who knows that little about the subject has no business trying to tell anybody else how to rig a ship model. The Anderson book contains all the information necessary to rig such a model accurately, and explains it in a literate, understandable manner. Offer up the Heller rigging instructions as a sacrifice to the local landfill, and put your trust in Dr. Anderson.
Except for the fabulous stern decoration, which is supported by some questionable historical evidence, almost every other aspect of Heller’s representation of the Soleil Royal is replete with errors, implausibilities, improbabilities, and anachronisms.
If you want to build a Soleil Royal that stand a chance of resembling the details of any actual late 17th century large men of war, you would be much better off taking your cue for all the details of the vessels from one the excellent models in the Greenwich maritime museum.
The late 17th / early 18th century is one of my favourite periods for ships and the Heller Soleil Royale is I think the only large scale plastic model representative of this period.
Oh how I wish that a similar model of the ‘Prince’ for which there is far more historical evidence was available – there would be no contest.
I enjoyed making my Soleil Royal not least because it provided an opportunity to rig such fascinating items as crowsfeet, europhoes, and the intricate lattice work of tackles with their multiple blocks, for the set up of the stays, items not appropriate to later period ships.
Despite its inaccuracies it does make up into a fine decorative model, and with some modification and the guidance of Dr Anderson will give much satisfaction.
That’s what I say. I’m not concerned with the innaccuracies. Right now, I’m painting all the decorations, and I’m having the time of my life. Forget the rigging. The guilding detail is amazing and my son’s eyes got huge when I showed him the finished windows on the stern. I’m no fantastic modeler and I can’t name every part of a ship (you guys confuse the heck out of me sometimes), but I’m having a blast…well…except for the monotony of the guns. I have 30 of them waiting for me tonight, along with the rest of the guilding and placement of the upper decks. It looks real good and the “Total Royal Blue” I went with for the hull looks great…
But, this is a fine model and will look absolutely great when completed…someday…a long long time from now…I am picking up the Anderson books and several of the other titles you have mentioned JTilley. I know I won’t be 100% accurate and everyone will see mistakes all over my builds, but this is some of the best work I have done and it’s enough to elevate my interest in the hobby to the point of discussing the construction of a work-room addition to the house with my wife. Kind of a model/scrapbook workshop complete with ventilated paint booth. Wish me luck.
Guys, thanks for all the input. I know I ask a lot of stupid questions, but trust me, they are sincere and you’re helping me make this kit the best I’ve ever built…
Oh, I did decide to go the way everyone recommended and filled the holes on the bowsprit. I’ll just make a loop for the blocks.
I agree with you on this. I have built several Tamiya and Trumpeter battleships and carriers, as well as countless tanks and planes (and two wood ship models, the AL Swift and Constellation) and I am completely enjoying myself building this Heller Soleil Royal. Yes, there are probably some inaccuracies but I think I will end up with a nice model that I will be proud to display in my home when I finally complete it.
I am also at the bow stage and have puzzled over the blocks and deadeyes as there are no grooves on any of them. I, too, am going to trash those and buy (in bulk) either walnut ones from ME or Bluejacket. I think I’ll also putty the holes and tie around instead of trying to keep them connected through the holes. I’ve also decided to reinforce them with internal wood or metal shafts which are also available from ME. I don’t see how these masts, etc. could possibly hold up without some kind of internal support but that’s okay. This has taught me another lesson.
I don’t mind the challange of modelling. If I want a no-brainer where I won’t be learning as I go along, I’ll build another tank or something. For now, this model is both challenging and satisfying.
After this, I think I’ll either get back to my Amati 1/250 Titanic or start my Mantua 1/78 Victory!!! Lots of copper plating to do on that puppy!!!
Actually, I’m using the kit blocks and deadeyes. I simply used my dremel to make a small groove around them. It worked like a charm, though it did take an evening to do. I’m one who, if at all possible, will avoid buying aftermarket parts. For me, being completely “accurate” with regards to how a ship looked, proper size rigging lines, and things like that, simply are not necessary. These kits are going to be displayed in my home, not paraded around shows and competitions. Of course, this is just my personal view.
Right now, I’m working on the bow, as well as getting the guns installed. I should have most of the hull finished up in about a month or so. All the guilding is taking time to paint and I get headaches from all the fine detail after about an hours worth of work.
As for the masts. I’m probably just going to use wooden dowels for support, though I have been told by people that have not put anything in the masts that they hold up just fine.
For me, the rigging is going to be a challenge. I’m fairly positive I will not be able to get it as accurate as possible, but it will be very nice nonetheless. I’ll be getting the book “Ship rigging in the days of the Spritsail Topmast” to help me out, but I’ve also found that by reading over the kit instructions countless evenings that the rigging instructions start making some sense.
But all in all, I love this kit. It looks gorgeous. Had I not been to this forum, I would have never known about the debate over “innaccuracies.” So all the hubub makes no difference to me.
Drop me an email if you like. I’d love to see some of your work. I’ll send you some pics if I can…just don’t laugh too hard when you see them… : )
Well, no one is really sure what the Soleil Royal really looked like during each phase of her career. Existing evidence is quite contradictory regarding the ship, so complete accuracy is not possible.
However, for the purpose of display, some of Heller’s omissions does distract from the visual impact of that lavish ship. The upper deck of all 17th century prestige ships were absolutely palatial in decoration. It is fairly certain that the upper deck of the Soleil Royal would be as lavishly decorated as any other ship of the era. French navy of Louis XIV era prefer an architectual theme in their decoration. The SR’s decoration would follow the same general theme as contemporay royal palaces in Versaille. All the knightheads would have been as elaborately carved and gilded as the stern figures. The inboard campanion ladders were elaborately curved. The inboard railings would be elegantly carved with mythological figures on the ballistrates. Essentially, no vertical space on the upperdeck would have been left undecorated.
All in all, the upper decks would have looks far more spectacular than the the worksmen like deck depicted by Heller.
Imagine what the kit would look like if the upper deck were as lavishly decorated as it should be.
While I do agree the the upper deck decorations would have been far more lavish and ornate, I can also say that since there is nobody in my house that would know the difference. Plus, I live in an army town. Now, if I had made an M1 tank model and it wasn’t accurate, then all of my neighbors would call me out on it. But, to date, everyone that has seen my Royal build has been wowed. And the two people that I am most concerned with pleasing, my boys, are just plain excited with how it’s coming.
And yes, I can imagine just how the upper decks would look with all the proper decoration. I can also imagine what the kit would be…
…a heck of a lot more expensive…
The detail as it is is impeccable (to me). And for me, the fun factor is off the scale.
While I do agree the the upper deck decorations would have been far more lavish and ornate, I can also say that since there is nobody in my house that would know the difference. Plus, I live in an army town. Now, if I had made an M1 tank model and it wasn’t accurate, then all of my neighbors would call me out on it. But, to date, everyone that has seen my Royal build has been wowed. And the two people that I am most concerned with pleasing, my boys, are just plain excited with how it’s coming.
And yes, I can imagine just how the upper decks would look with all the proper decoration. I can also imagine what the kit would be…
…a heck of a lot more expensive…
The detail as it is is impeccable (to me). And for me, the fun factor is off the scale.
More questions coming soon…rigging is not too far off (maybe a month or
While I do agree the the upper deck decorations would have been far more lavish and ornate, I can also say that since there is nobody in my house that would know the difference. Plus, I live in an army town. Now, if I had made an M1 tank model and it wasn’t accurate, then all of my neighbors would call me out on it. But, to date, everyone that has seen my Royal build has been wowed. And the two people that I am most concerned with pleasing, my boys, are just plain excited with how it’s coming.
And yes, I can imagine just how the upper decks would look with all the proper decoration. I can also imagine what the kit would be…
…a heck of a lot more expensive…
The detail as it is is impeccable (to me). And for me, the fun factor is off the scale.
More questions coming soon…rigging is not too far off (maybe a month or two)…
Thanks for all the input guys. It makes this build that much more fun.
