Fella’s/Subject Matter Experts I call out to you for a QUICK Answer? F4U - 1 vs F4U - 4 Corsairs ?
I have followed the developement of several versions of the same aircraft with different subjects but aside from the trouble with the early Versions of the Corsair with Short Main Gear Legs that Broke on Carrier landings and/or caused nose overs hence led early Marine Corsair Squdrons being ground or shore based on Quadal Canal until a fixed version was produced and filtered to the front. Other than that knowlege I am completely Ignorant of the differences between Corsair versions and their deployment?
I have a Trump F4U-4 NIB. Did this version FLy In the PAcific during the later years of the war? ANy popular Aces? Was it flown by the Black Sheep?
OR have I made an egresseous Mistake and the F4U-4 is a early Koreaen War Bird?
The Trumpeter F4U-4 comes with decals for one of the few F4U-4s that saw combat in WW II. Some of the Marines on Okinawa got them before the war ended. The higher performance engine did help them catch kamikazes.
Most -4s that saw combat were either in the hands of other nations (I believe the French Navy used some at Suez in 1950, and some South American countries had them), or were used mainly in the ground attack role in Korea.
The early -4s had six .50 machine guns like the -1s, but later models were mostly equipped with 4 20 mm cannons instead. Most Korean War Corsairs were cannon equipped, but there were a few .50 Corsairs still in service.
The vast majority of F4Us used in WW II were -1s, though there were three sub-variants to see combat. The -1 otherwise known as the Birdcage Corsair had a framed canopy and some other differences. Most of VMF-214’s (the Black Sheep) birds were -1 Birdcage Corsairs.
The Corsair that made the most headlines was the -1a, which was the first version to have the frameless canopy. Some were used by VMF-214 as well as VF-17, the Jolly Rogers which is the most famous Navy Corsair squadron. The -1a did not come from the factory with the ability to carry drop tanks or bombs, but many were field modified to add this capability. The first unit to use the Corsair was VF-17 near the end of their tour.
In mid to late 1943, the -1d came into service. The -1d was very similar to the -1a with the addition of hardpoints from the facory for drop tanks or bombs, and some had rocket rails too. Trumpeter makes a -1d kit in 1/32 also.
The -1d also did away with the remaining canopy frame. The early -1ds still had the frame, but it was eliminated early in the production run. The -1a had a horizontal canopy frame that was about level with the pilot’s head.
I’m sure someone else will add more detail. That’s what I remember of f the top of my head.
That is Fantastic. Just the info I was looking for. The trump F4U-4 Decals show a checked nose one and a Cobra SNake one. I take it the Checked Nose one is the WWII era Corsair?
I wanted a WWII Corsir but didn’t want the Birdcage one. It’s too late for me to go back and exchange the kit. I have way too many AM parts for it already. But I did want to put in WWII markings preferabley with a few Rising Sun FLags Under the Cockpit ( No Offense)
I understand now it made it to combat in WWII with only Six months left in the conflict but still racked up an impressive score in that short time.
Since most marking show it during the Korean COnflict I am very confused in trying to choose AM Decals of Aces in the Aircraft?
Anyone off the top of their head know which AM Decal sets are WWII ones for the F4U-4 ?
I believe there are some decal sets out there. I don’t recall who makes them though.
If I remember right, the WW II decals in the kit are for Walsh’s aircraft. I believe he ran up the bulk of his score in the Solomon’s flying -1 Corsairs. He returned to combat at Okinawa and I think he bagged a few with the -4, but the bulk were early war victories.
Here is the link to the Wikipedia page on the F4U. That page is merely a summary, but the links on the bottom of the page will lead you to a wealth of information.
Sorry but I think both decal versions are for Korean vintage -4s. VMF-312 used the checkerboard cowling on its -1Ds in WWII, (also on rudder), but apparently did not switch to -4s until after the war. They definitely used the checkered cowling in Korea, with the tail code “WR”.
The snake on the cowling was used on a few -4s (#11, #18, + ?) of VMF-323 for a time during Korea (tail code “WS”), on a sort of maroon background. I’ve never seen it before that.
The WWII pictures of -4s I have in my references show some Marine squadrons used simply a colored cowl ring, described as either red or blue. Several Navy squadrons converted to -4s right around the end of WWII. I have photos of them on three carriers, but the actual dates are not given. They carried the respective Air Group markings of the time.
This may not help your situation much. Hope you can find something else.
Just pulled down a Trumpeter -4 I have here. The side of the box states that the following decals are provided:
VMF-323 Death Rattlers, September 1950
and
Ken Walsh’s white 13, VMF-222 Okinawa June 1945
The Ken Walsh bird is rather plain with just the national insignia, the number 13, and the kill flags.
I believe the tail wheel extension was put on the F4U-1A. I think both tail wheel assemblies are in the Tamyia kit, not at home to check. I believe the problem was the hard landings were making the struts blow the seals. Also the oleo pressure setup was too stiff and caused the aircraft to bounce. In the “80’s” I was talking with the pilot of a Corsair at an Airshow and he said the seals were so hard to get they just had their oleo struts wired in the up position. The design of the gear has a rod that pulls the strut to the full up position when retacting so it would fit in the wing. One of my modeling buddies was in Korea on a small carrier. The the Corsairs with the checker board cowls flew off his carrier. He gave me copies of some pictures he took and one of them is number “22” made famous on the old Monogram Kit box art. I have a very nice set of about 15 pictures of the Corsairs on the deck. I also have a shot of one with the same number of the Corsair hanging in the Pensacola Naval Aviation Museum. I keep meaning to see if the Musuem would like to make copies of the pictures. Doug unfortuately passed away some years ago. No scanner or I would “share” them.
You’re limited to the overall Gloss sea blue on the -4 if you want it in WW2 markings. Ken Walsh flew the -4, as did Robert Hansen, leading F4U ace during the war. I recently modeled his -4 for an exhibit onboard the USS Intrepid.
You can certainly add some color to the aircraft though. On Oct. 7th, 1944, the USN issued orders for CVs and CVLs to adopt specific ID markings. These ranged from stripes to geometric shapes on the starboard wing and tail. This practice had been in use since 1943, but it was unofficial until this Oct. 44 order. It appears that most ships in the fleet didn’t start adopting the new standards until January of '45. A new system was implemented on 27 July, 1945, that replaced the geometric shapes with letters, however, the changeover was gradual and some carriers retained the geometric shape system until the end of the war.
If you can find a -4 carrier assignment between Mar-Apr 45 and Aug 45, I can provide you with the info on the ID markings. The other option is to model an immediate post-war aircraft, training squadrons usually had colorful bands on the fuselage to ID them as potentially hazardous.
Can you post or send me any pics of your Robert Hansen Bird? Carrier Geometric Would be NicE? Are those the Big UP Arrows on the Tail and Right Wing or else the Diamond White X looking square on the same places?
Still my problem is searching AM Decals and disguishing the WWII types although I’ll try.
I’ll do some searching around for you. If I remember correctly, Hansen’s -4 had a white stripe on the wing and tail, and that was about it aside from a number and insignia. Not very exciting. What you need is a USS Shangri-La, she carried a San Diego Chargers-style lightning bolt on the tail and wing.
There’s no sense in looking for aftermarket decals, no one makes the geometric ID symbls that I’m aware of, you’ll have to mask them and paint them. Besides, a white decal over gloss sea blue is problematic to begin with, especially with aftermarket decals that tend to be thin.
I thought the only -4s to make it to the war zone in WW II were the handful the Marines on Okinawa had? I’ve never heard of any -4s that were on carriers during the war.
There were some interesting post war schemes. Especially some of the National Guard planes. A few lasted long enough to make it to the gray color scheme. I believe Hasegawa did a release with a NG gray Corsair. The later ones were all cannon armed though. Glossy dark blue is going to be the primary color of any machine gun armed -4 Corsair.
It would be nice if a cannon armament conversion set for the Trumpeter Corsair became available.
I’ll have to look at my assignment sheets, there were a few that got to the carriers prior to the end of hostilities. I’m pretty sure it was post-Okinawa. That’s a pretty tight time frame considering the war was over 6 weeks after Okinawa ended. The -4s were typically used as ready-launch aircraft in the event any Kamikazes got through the CAP. This was due to their superior rate of climb over the -1Ds. More horsepower (2150hp with a 4-bladed prop versus 2000 with a 3-blade in the -1D). When I modeled Hansen’s -4, it was aboard the Intrepid circa August '45. I got Xeroxed photos from the Intrepid Association because I didn’t believe it either…
Argh - correction and retraction time - It was not Robert M. Hansen’s Corsair - Hansen was USMC and KIA in 1944.
It was however, a Hansen that flew -4s from Intrepid in '45. This is what happens when you try to remember something you did two years ago. I’ll try to find the info and pass it on.
I still stand by my contention that -4s were used on carriers before the end of the war…so there. [;)]
Sorta off topic, but I like the F4U-1C. There weren’t many made, and I have no idea why, but I would take those 4 20mm cannon on the 1C over the 6 .50s of the other versions any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
I read somewhere that the 20mm cannons in use by the Navy had some teething problems and were not all that reliable until the bugs were worked out after the war ended. The cannons used to inconveniently jam in a dog fight.
They also had a relatively slow rate of fire compared to M2 Brownings. I remember reading somewhere (it was probably tech evaluations at the air museum I directed) that the biggest hurdle the USN had to overcome was getting the pilots used to the 20mm’s slower rate of fire. In a dogfight, pilots could squeeze a quick burst and get lead into the target. With the 20mm, the round traveled slower and had a slower rate of fire (also less ammo), so fighter pilots had to change their doctrine.
As a fighter-bomber and ground attack aircraft, the 20mm were devastating.
The 20s definately had a slower rate of fire and less ammo. They also had a lower muzzle velocity and therefore you had to lead more in a deflection shot. However, it took a lot fewer hits to bring down a plane with a 20mm. Although, in the Pacific I guess it wasn’t as necessary since the Japanese didn’t have much or any armor and for the most part didn’t have self-sealing fuel tanks.
I was surching around, and i found that eagle strike does produce decals for the F4U-4 cousair, and some of their F4U-1s have have the gemetric shapes that might be able to be transfered to a -4, even one for the Shangri-la. Dont know if you wnat 48th scale, but thats what i found them for. THeir sets 093 & 094. http://www.eaglestrikeproductions.com/cgi-bin/esp2.pl THe second sheet has the -4s on it. Hope that helps a bit.