I’ve noticed on some US PT boats that the torps are in launching tubes, while on some other PT boats the torps just seem to be sitting open, on stands—with no visible means of them being launched…what gives?
I’ve also noticed the same thing with the recent release of the Italian Torpedo Boat…
Launchers vs roll-off racks.
Different torpedos, different launch methods.
Too, the flash from black powder charge on the launcher was a dead giveaway as to your position
Looks like the later war boats went to the roll-offs…I thought they tube-launched torps did it w/ compressed air?
Also, were any of these craft painted in medium green, such as PT-109, as depicted in movies and models???
Looking to buy the 72nd Revell classic 109 and also wondered how good the WE PE upgrade is—for $50 I thought it should be very good but the two frets themselves don’t look like world-beaters…
The MK18 torpedo tubes fitted to the ELCO and Huckins PTs used a black powder charge to launch their torpedoes. The MK19 tubes fitted to the Higgins PTs used compressed air. Both launched the standard 21" MK8 torpedo. A roll-off rack developed mid war replaced the tubes and were used to launch the 22.5" MK13 torpedo normally used by TBF/TBM aircraft.
Al Ross
Hah! Learned something new today!! Thanks. That fact will also help to date photos.
Also, the element of surprise and concealment was partially lost when the black powder charge went off in complete darkness as the PT Boats used the cover of night to their advantage. Not to mention that the MK13 torps were more reliable.
The black powder version also had a bad habit of igniting the grease in the tube (bad enough to flash em but now they can pin point you )! The racks were also much lighter as I recall. R/Mike
There have been several discussions on PT colors and schemes in the Forum. Here is a link that I hope can help you: /forums/p/112964/1124817.aspx#1124817
See www.ptboats.org or www.ptboatworld.com, google Researcher@large … www.shipcamouflage.com …
Cool, so it WAS green after all…
Right. But, I have to tell you. Personally? I like Measure 31/5P and the Thayer Blue System the best of all the schemes carried by the PTs. I think those two schemes made the boats’ lines more attractive rather than the overall green, … ya know?
Garth
What does that measure look like?
White Ensign makes a paint in thier enamel Colourcoats line that is, in fact, MTB Green. If you are ok with enamel paints their’s is the best I’ve found and their line of World War 2 colors, not only U.S. but also IJN, RN, DKM, is spot on for accuracy as far as I can tell. FYI
Bob
Which measure? 31/5P or the Thayer Blue System?
31/5P had a base color of I believe Navy Green which had irregular patterns of I think (either) Tropical Green or Ocean Green, and I believe Ocean Green would be the more likely one. The patterns had soft edges to it. And, I believe it had deck green decks as well.
The Thayer Blue System was overall Thayer Blue and had Deck Blue decks and all horizontal surfaces also had Deck Blue …
The boats of PT Ron 29 (which carried this scheme) had a yellow colored triangular shaped panel (for air recognition purposes) which was three feet long, going from the forepeak back …
Additionally, some of the Ron 29 boats (two to three feet long/wide) had a red stripe on the deck aft.
Garth
The one on PT 109…
How much “reveal” there was from using a powder impulse system couild be subject to some question.
Especially since the preferred attack method is in the dark of night, at full speed.
So, any “flash” or “smoke” from the torpedo launching would be in contrast to the .50 cal covering fire and a bow wave of a significant size. Remember, at the high speed setting (46kt) the engagement range was one to two miles (4000 yards).
Now, as to how other navies’ PTs had on-deck torpedoes, those are reloads. As a design strategy (or a requirement of the launcher) the tubes required more infrastructure, and were fixed. Just with reloads ready to roll into the launchers. Theoretically, the all-up weight is less, only two launchers plus the reloading gear, vice nn launchers with one load apiece.
But, the weight of the launchers, and all the supplies to launch and aim them is one of the reasons US PTs went to roll-off Mk13 torps–being aerial torpedoes, the 3’ drop from a 40kt PT simpler than a 100’ drop from a 140kt torpedo plane.
Oh, her …
She was either overall Tropical Green or overall Navy Green. Based on handwritten letters which I received in the early 80s, from the, then, four surviving members of the 109’s last crew, I’d use Navy Green, but … it’s YOUR model, use what you think is good.
Garth
Yeah, 109 presents some problems.
A truly accurate model of 109, especially in her last few days would not much look like a professional model.
It would be a very boring monochrome, as well.
A person would almost have to depict some other portion of her 'Ron, if only to show that the depiction of 109 is “meant” to look that way.
What’s the difference in the two shades?
Here is a link to two conversions of the 1/35 Italeri PT596 kit that I built, one of which is PT109:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/patrol/pt-35-ss/ss-index.html
There is probably a lot more that we don’t know about PT109’s actual appearance than we do know, but one thing that is generaly accepted is that she was painted overall some shade of green. Whether this was an official navy shade or a “homebrew” mixed from what was available is open to question. I chose a color that looked good to me, and I don’t thnk a modeler can go very wrong using some shade of medium green. Certainly using tropical green or navy green would not be incorrect.
The other model is PT559, which was a Mediterranean boat painted in the Thayer blue scheme that Garth mentioned.