http://www.materials-world.com/stains/olympic/solid/Stain_Olympic_Solid_01.htm
In a past post- Mr. Tilley suggested “Driftwood”- is this still the best choice? I was leaning towards “Deauville” - a little less brown…but I’m open to the expert advice found on this board…have not started planking yet- basswood is on the way so plenty of time to decide!
Current pics show the deck with a slight grey sheen so that’s why I’m asking…
Any help appreciated- thanks!
-Len
If you are using basswood,black liquid shoe dye, found in shoe repair shops,thinned with alcohol and a couple test dips to determine the shade work very well for me and the dry time is in minutes. Caveat,you don’t need a lot of dye to alcohol ratio,its actually better to fill a container with alcohol and add dye than to thin the dye with alcohol. very thin will give you a really nice driftwood look and darker from there.
I’ve just been to the Cutty Sark. The actual deck color is a bleached, very faintly greenish gray. There is no real tan colored tinge to it. Of course the deck planks currently on the Cutty Sark is somewhat neglected and in need of maintenance. You might choose to ting it tan to make it look newer.
thanks guys- good advice…I’ll post pics soon…
Len
According to Mr. Campbell’s plans, the original deck planking of the Cutty Sark was teak. The planks on the main and forecastle decks were 5" wide; those on the poop and the roof of the poop deckhouse seem to have been 5" wide at their forward ends, but tapered slightly toward the stern. The seams between the planks on the main, forecastle, and poop decks were filled with black caulking compound; those on the roof of the poop deckhouse had white caulking. (Mr. Campbell describes the roofs of the other two deckhouses as “bare teak, 2 1/2” plank." I think that dimension refers to the thickness of the planks - as distinct from the deck planks, which were 3 1/2" thick. He’s drawn the planks on the roofs of the deckhouses as though they were 5" wide, like those of the decks.)
The Cutty Sark’s deck planking has been replaced at least once. It was in the process of being replaced the first time I visited her, in 1978, and I think it had been replaced at least once before that. The guys who were working on it explained to me that they weren’t using teak, but some Asian hardwood (the name of which I fear I’ve long since forgotten) that, they hoped, would last longer. They were gluing this substance down to the teak planks beneath. No nails, bungs, or other fastenings were visible in the deck when they got finished.
I tend toward making any deck planking a basically grey color, perhaps with a slight tinge of beige. I used to like the “driftwood” stains made by Floquil and Minwax; unfortunately, neither of them seems to make that color any more. (If either of them does, I haven’t been able to find it.) The line of stains from Olympic Paints does include a “driftwood” color. It’s ok, but to my eye it’s perhaps a little TOO grey. I did some experiments a few months back mixing it with other stain colors. I was pretty happy with a mixture of “driftwood” with a small percentage of “golden oak.” There is, however, a lot of room for personal taste here.
Applying wood planks over the existing plastic deck components works particularly well on this model. The real ship has iron waterways, which are “sunk” below the level of the deck planking. (At some point in the ship’s history the waterway “troughs” were filled with cement. It sticks in my mind that, on at least one of the three or four occasions when I went on board her, the cement was painted red. I may be mistaken about that, though.)
I don’t imagine any of that has helped much. Good luck.
Thanks John- I went to the hardware store and got 3 sample tins of Cabot stain- they have a huge line of colors!
One is called Navajo White, the other is called Driftwood Grey and the last is an Oak. Each tin is more than enough to do the model so I’ll post pics of how it looks when I can. Will be a while though!
-Len
I’ve seen ads for Cabot stains and paints, but nobody in my neck of the woods seems to sell them. I don’t know of any reason why they shouldn’t work fine for this purpose.
One other thought. Basswood is a decent material for planking; it’s capable of producing good results. But the best material for such a job, in my opinion, is holly veneer. Holly is extremely hard, with an incredibly tight grain that actually looks like miniaturized wood. By a furniture maker’s definition it’s difficult to stain, but for modelers that’s not a problem; stain barely penetrates the surface, but for our purposes that’s more than enough. The only problem is that it’s rather difficult to find (you aren’t likely to find holly in a local lumberyard or home center), and you have to cut it yourself. If you’ve got a table saw with a fine blade (or if you’ve got access to one, or to a friend who has one), that’s relatively easy. If not, I’d probably recommend sticking with basswood.
Several web sources carry holly veneer. One good source, which has been in business forever, is the one that used to be known as Constantine’s of the Bronx (now Constantine’s of Ft. Lauderdale). Here’s the link: www.constantines.com .
Good luck.
Thanks John- I’m committed to the basswood- should be arriving this week. Along with the replacement wood belaying pins and brass eyebolts.
I’ve been keeping myself busy with assembling the masts, and painting the hull. Paint markers saved the day for the white strake and the mahogany top rail!
And I have loads of thin brass wire for the footropes…
One more note- I have in my possession a set of huge plans for Cutty Sark- from 1958. Thre appear to be plans from an old wood model company is called Marine Model Company, 1958. 6 sheets of plans- I will take pics soon and post them- they seem well done.
-Len
I have 2 copies of the Marine Model Cutty Sark Kit (got them off ebay for decent prices). While I haven’t had a chance to compare them to the Campbell plans or the 1959 Revell Kit Instructions, they look pretty good. The instructions with Marine Model kits were not as detailed as many of the Model shipways kits that I made 30 years ago, but they had somegood clipper ships, and good scale Constitution and Charles W. Morgan. The Marine Model Cutty Sark is a very nice kit, it has good size and detail. The hull is not as nicely finished as the Model shipways kits, but the mahogany 1 that I have is a very nice piece of wood.
I remember reading that either Marine Model or Model shipways made some of the fittings for Scientific and Sterling model ship kits.
Jim
Marine Models was in business for a long time - at least forty years and probably longer. I don’t think I’ve ever actually built any of their kits, but back in the Olde Dayes I looked at quite a few of them. My recollection is that, like the products of just about every other company, they varied quite a bit in quality. Some of the MM machine-carved hulls I’ve seen were lopsided and mighty primitive; others looked really nice. The same goes for their fittings. I think I recall hearing one of the gentlemen who used to own Model Shipways acknowledge that Marine Models blocks, when the firm was in its heyday, were the very best. And some of their cast white metal (i.e., lead alloy) parts were pretty awful. I don’t recall having seen the MM Cutty Sark in the flesh.
I can’t comment on the MM plans either, not having seen them. I just took a look at the Campbell plans, trying to find a date on them. I couldn’t find one, but I have the impression that he drew them in the early sixties - when the ship was undergoing a major restoration. My guess is that the Marine Models plans are older than that, and may not reflect some of the research that Mr. Campbell and his associates did. But I don’t know that for a fact.
In any case, it’s hard for me to believe that ANY set of plans for this ship could have more detail on them than the Campbell drawings do. They don’t show the actual structural details of the hull (i.e., precisely how the frames and other structural members were riveted together), except in a general way. Otherwise, just about every detail of the ship that I can think of - and quite a few that never would have occured to me - is there.
I know Model Shipways made fittings for both Scientific and Sterling; Messrs. Shedd and Milone (the original owners) mentioned it once when I was there for a visit. The old Model Shipways “factory” consisted of a small storefront at the end of a dead-end street in Bogota, New Jersey. John Shedd and Sam Milone were two of the friendliest, most outgoing gentlemen I’ve ever met. That “factory” wasn’t really set up as a retail store, but whenever a modeler strolled in the two owners would drop what they were doing to roll out the red carpet and talk ship models, baseball (Sam was a rabid Yankee fan), and whatever. Those were the days.
Back on the subject of deck stains - this afternoon I took a stroll through the paint department at the local Lowe’s store, and found there have been some interesting developments in the world of wood stains since the last time I checked. Minwax still doesn’t appear to have a “driftwood” color, but both Minwax and Olympic have made some changes in their ranges of water-based stains. Both of them now offer a wide range of “custom stain colors custom mixed at the paint desk.”
Among the colors on the chart were several interesting grey and beige shades. I imagine a sympathetic individual working in the paint department could, in fact, mix up a stain to just about any shade the customer wanted.
I’ve never used water-based stains, but I’ve read quite a bit about them in woodworking magazines. The usual criticism of them is that they raise the grain - i.e., that the surface of the wood is made rough and fuzzy where the water-based finish is applied. The cure usually mentioned in the magazines is to “prep” the wood by dampening it with water. That raises the grain. Let it dry, then sand it smooth, and (supposedly) the grain will stay smooth put when the finish is applied. It’s hard for me to believe that anything could raise the grain in holly; it’s too hard. But on baswood, which has a tendency to be a little soft and fuzzy in the first place, raised grain might indeed need to have some attention paid to it.
The other drawback I can see to that custom-mixing arrangement is that, in my experience, paint dealers are only willing to mix custom colors in quantities of a quart or larger. A quart of stain would treat the decks of several dozen 1/96 Cutty Sarks.
At any rate, it looks to me like these water-based, custom-mixed stains are worth checking out.
Progress so far- took about 3 nights. need to sand the main deck, smaller pieces have been sanded. This is pre-stain:
Thanks for your help John- I am using all your tips over the years for this one…I made Xerox copies of the plastic to overlay and use to locate holes for deck parts.
-Len
Driftwood Grey Cabot stain applied- a little too dark but another light sanding I think will make it better. Used a different stain on tops of deckhouses- Salt Marsh.
-Len
Looks about right to me - maybe a trifle dark, but the final sanding should take care of that.
One more small suggestion: when you get the color the way you like it, give the whole deck a coat of white shellac, diluted almost beyond recognition with denatured alcohol. (Better do a test off the model; I’ve used this trick on Minwax stains, but never on Cabot.) The shellac will settle the grain and, without adding any gloss (if it’s sufficiently diluted), protect the wood and the stain from various things you may accidentally get on it later. A drop of acrylic paint, for instance, will make a permanent mess on unfinished wood, but wipe right up if the wood has a coat of shellac on it.
Shellac is making a comeback among woodworkers these days. It’s actually remarkable, versatile stuff; one of the easiest and most attractive wood finishes to apply. Paint and homeowner stores are selling it under the Zinser label. One of its few drawbacks is its limited shelf life. Always start by brushing a little out of the can onto a piece of scrap wood. If it doesn’t dry in a few minutes, throw the can out.
thanks! another good suggestion!
what a resource this forum is…
-Len
That deck is very impressive. I am building the cutty sark as well. I’m planning on planking the deck with wood but I have a few questions. First of all, do you start planking in the centre or at one of the sides? How do you keep the planks straight as you work your way down the deck? Do you add the planks with the deck out of the hull or mounted in the hull? There are a number of areas that are raised on the deck like around the holes for the masts. Did you sand all of these flat?
Sorry for the number of questions, but I want to do this right!
\
Good question.
I’m waiting for jtilley to answer because I’ll be building this model pretty soon too.
tilley? [:-^]
@jtilley: I’ve been learning a lot by reading your very informative posts, and noticed that you had mentioned in 2005 that there were some good references on prototype decking. What are some of those references?
Reading threads like this one has tempted me to go further in ‘redeeming’ the Trumpeter Mayflower …
Cheers,
vonB.
I saw that post too. This may be a stupid question but what is a “prototype” deck?