I have received my 1/350 Eagle and want to make some photoetch details for it. I want to start with the ratlines and railings. I am thinking of using 0.005" brass. For the ratlines, I think the shrouds will be 0.010" wide and the ratlines will be 0.005". This is a little overscale, but does it sound OK? How much “droop” should be in the ratlines? What is the diameter of the deadeyes?
From the pictures I have seen, it looks like the railings are about 40" high, with the stantions on 48" centers. Can anyone confirm?
What other details should I be concerned with. I know more about photoetching than I do about ships, so any help on the full size details will be appreciated.
We had a disgustingly long discussion of the Eagle in this forum a little while back. I’ve moved that thread, which is headed “U.S. Coast Guard Barque Eagle,” to p. 1; it should appear just below this one. It contains info on where to get plans, photos (including online ones), and other information about her. Warning: read it all the way through (though that, I fear, may take a while). In my first post on the thread I made a mistake; I didn’t know about the best Eagle kit on the market. Rcboater, fortunately, corrected me. He also mentioned a source for plans at a lower price than the ones I cited.
The thread also discusses the various problems with the 1/350 Imai/Academy kit - including the fact that it’s about 24 scale feet too short. That may or may not be of interest; the discrepancy isn’t much on that scale.
If you want to represent the ship’s rigging with photo-etched metal you’re obviously going to have to make some compromises. (There’s just no practical way to do it without making compromises; photo-etching may well be the best solution.) A real ratline is, at the most, about half an inch in diameter. That would make it about .0014" on 1/350 scale. .005" might look a little heavy; I’d suggest giving it a try and taking a look at the result. The spacing between the ratlines is somewhere in the neighborhood of a foot - about .034" on the scale. I don’t have the diameter of the lower shrouds in front of me, but they actually aren’t much heavier than the ratlines. (The shrouds are steel wire; the ratlines are some sort of synthetic rope - which does indeed sag between the shrouds.)
The Eagle doesn’t have deadeyes. Her lower shrouds and the other major components of her standing rigging are set up with rigging screws - otherwise known as oversized turnbuckles. A good way to represent them on such a tiny scale might be just to apply some thickened white paint to the rigging at the appropriate spots.
Regarding rail stanchions, my suggestion is to concentrate on getting the number right. Since the kit’s length is off, accurate spacing will yield too few stanchions. The photos and plans mentioned in the other thread should sort all this out.
I have been thinking about your suggestion regarding the stantions. If they are 4’ apart on the real ship( I have taken measurements from a set of plans from an old Scientific wooden model - I don’t know if it bears any relationship to reality), The missing 24’ would account for 6 extra stantions per side. Can I squeeze that many in without it looking too crowded?
I haven’t looked at that Scientific kit for many years, but I strongly suspect the plans are based on the old Harold Underhill drawings. If so, they’re 24 feet short - like the Imai/Academy kit.
Without modifying the kit hull (or starting from scratch) the best you’re going to get is a close approximation of how the real ship looks. If I remember correctly the guardrails are located in three places: at the bulwarks around the quarterdeck, at the bulwarks around the forecastle, and along the sides of the extension of the forecastle deck in the waist. I don’t know where along the length the 24 feet are missing. Part of the offending area may well be between the aft extremity of the forecastle deck and the break of the quarterdeck, in which case the number of railing stanchions would’t be affected.
I just checked the outboard profile and sailplan of the Eagle that I drew for the CG Historian’s Office back in 1994. (It’s based on the surviving builder’s drawings, measured drawings by Coast Guard draftsmen, and photos I took on board the ship.) It shows an average guardrail stanchion spacing of just about 4 feet, but there are exceptions. There is, for instance, a big double fairlead near the stern; it’s about 5 feet wide, and the stanchion spacing is adjusted to accommodate it. Several of the stanchions on the aft extension of the forecastle deck are obscured by a weather cloth (which has a carved wood name board hanging on it), and the aftermost stanchions in that section appear to form a rack for a stack of liferafts. The extreme forward end of the guardrail along the forecastle bulwark is shaped in a curve - that is, the top rail is bent over to form the foremost stanchion. There’s a one-bar extension forward of that railing. All this is probably confusing to read, but pretty clear from the drawing.
As we discussed in that earlier thread, there are various sources for accurate plans of the Eagle. I think the Coast Guard Historian’s Office still has copies of the drawing I made; if so, you should be able to get a free copy just by asking. The place to start is the Coast Guard website, www.uscg.mil . Click on “History,” and you’ll be on the Historian’s Office page. The chief historian, Dr. Bob Browning, is a first-rate gent and sympathetic to the requirements of model builders.
That same site will get you access - for free - to more than 200 photos of the Eagle that you can download. Those pictures probably will tell you just about everything you need to know to build a 1/350-scale model.
I have always had good luck with the people at the Historian’s Office. I begin all my inquires with " I am building a model of" and could you please provide some photos. I have received B&W photos (generally a copy) of both A/C and ships as well as painting instructions. As John mentioned, they are very sympathetic to modelers wishes.
I’m getting ready to start building my Eagle–I’m looking for PE sets to adapt to improve the model…
I’m thinking about using the Tom’s set for the Trumpeter Liberty Ship-- it seems to have a decent selection of railings, inclined ladders, watertight doors, etc.
Another option might be the Tom’s Titanic set- lots of railigns and enough ladders, but no naval-style doors…
Anyone have any better recommendations?
-Bill
I am making a PE set. I should be able to make the pieces you need. I am trying to lay out the ratlines and railings first. All suggestions accepted for other parts
I would like to see:
Railings, watertight doors, inclined ladders, ratlines, protective frame for the radar on the foremast, blocks and falls for the boats,
Other parts the kit needs:
26 foot Motor surf boats-- the kit includes 1800s era longboats that are all wrong.
Davits for the boats- the kit includes simple J davits.
What sort of timeline are you thinking for your set?
The ratlines should not take long at all. It is just a matter of measuring the spaces on the model. I don’t think the railings are hard either. I could probably have something in two weeks. All the other stuff, I would need help with the design. Can you help?
I have completed the layout of my phoetch railings and ratlines. I have also drawn a propeller and the grates next to the ships wheel. I have written to the Coast Guard historian for info on the other details, but have not heard back yet. Does anyone have info ( dimensions etc) on things such as the davits? I would like to etch all the details at one time.
Powdermonkey - I don’t have the measurements, but I bought a reasonably good scanner a couple of weeks ago. If you’ll post your e-mail address I can e-mail you a copy of the drawing I did for the CG Historian’s Office, and you can print it out. It’s only an outboard profile and sail plan, and by the time I scan it and you print it out it will be kind of small. But it should be of at least some help.
This is a little off topic, but does apply. How many people have seen the latest newsletter from Loyalhanna Dockyard? Here is a little item from that newsletter:
Did you know that in 2000, the USCG changed the spec on the white paint? Insignia White (FS 17875) was the authorized white for a long time. Now White (FS 17925) is the authorized color. Insignia White (17875) has a slight gray tinge; White (17925) is a “pure” white.
I think that the most needed USCG colors are:
White (17925)
Spar (10371) - Badger Model Flex Marine Color 16-405 Deck Tan is close
CG red stripe (12199) Model Master Chevy Engine Red is close
CG Blue Stripe (15182)
(Deck) Blue Gray (16099)
If you would like to see these colors, please let Loyalhanna Dockyard know.
Powdermonkey - a scan of that drawing of the Eagle (in two parts; the whole thing wouldn’t fit on my scanner bed) is on the way via e-mail. It took two tries (I screwed up the first attempt; sorry), but I think the images went out of my computer in legible form.
If anybody else is at all interested - I’ve saved the drawing on my hard drive, and would be more than happy to e-mail a copy to anybody who asks for it. Since the drawing was commissioned by the USCG Historian’s Office, it’s in the public domain; it’s perfectly legal to use it for model building or any other purpose.
Thank you for the drawings. They are a little fuzzy, but I think if I shrink it down to 1/350 scale, it should print out nicely. Could you tell me what the numbers are on the scale legend up by the bow? Then I can adjust the scale before I print.
Powder monkey - Glad the drawing came through. I was afraid the resolution would be a problem. If you have trouble making out any important details I can scan it again at a higher resolution setting. The trade-off, of course, is that it would take a long time to upload and download.
The numbers on the scale bar are 0-5-10-15-20 ft. Each black or white rectangle between 0 and 5 is one scale foot in length.
The original drawing is on the scale of 3/32"=1’. The prints published by the CG Historian’s Office are 50% reductions of the original - i.e., they’re on 3/64"=1’ scale (1/256). One of those prints is what I scanned and e-mailed. A model on 1/350 scale should be about 73% of the print I scanned - but that’s probably irrelevant. The size of what came out of your printer, presumably, is governed by the printer settings.
Don’t forget the notorious 24’ discrepancy. I think the 1/350 Imai kit is based on the old Underhill drawings, which represent the Gorch Fock (and therefore are shorter than the Eagle by 24". One way or another, you’ll need to take that into consideration if you use the drawing in conjunction with the kit.
Good luck. I’m sure we’re all interested in how the model turns out.
I’ll get on it this evening. (I’m at work at the moment; the scanner and the drawing are at home.) I’ll try enlarging that section and rescanning it.
That drawing, though, isn’t going to tell you much about the davits. You’ll be more likely to get useful info about them from photographs taken from an angle.
I seem to recall that the big davits currently on board the Eagle were recycled from another ship - I think one of the Treasury-class cutters. So photos of them would be useful as well.
Powder Monkey - I just e-mailed you an enlarged scan of the area around the davits on the drawing. I’m afraid it won’t help much, though. I’ll dig around and see if I can find a photo or two; I’m pretty sure I took some detail shots of the davits.
They’re rather interesting fittings - considerably bigger and stronger than they need to be. They were removed from one of the old Treasury-class Coast Guard cutters, which were designed for search-and-rescue work in mid-ocean. The davits were intended to handle big surfboats loaded with survivors. They don’t rotate on their bases; they swing outboard on inges. (The outlines of the hinge structures are shown on the drawings, but you have to know what you’re looking for to see them.)
I’m sure everybody who follows this Forum would be interesting in seeing how your model comes out. Good luck.