Okay,
I’ve seen umpteen posts/articles on joining seams, gap filling, etc. But no matter what I do I can’t seem to avoid noticiable damage to panel lines that either cross the repaired section or lie nearby. And re-scribing is like playing russian roulette. Sometimes it’s okay and other times it just makes things worse.
How do you minimize the damage done by fixing seams and gap filling?!
Thanks.
To minimize this problem, I use Squadron white putty and then smooth it with Acetone based nail polish remover on a cotton swap. Lay down the putty as per usual, and then used a swap with a good amount of remover on it and start wiping. The acetone will soften the putty and create a smooth joint without sanding. Works great in areas like wing roots of aircrafts. Just give extra time to dry.
Thanks, that’s a good idea because I can’t seem to lay the putty down lightly enough to avoid heavy sanding. Suppose the acetone idea will work with Squadron green putty, too?
First you must get to a point in your basic construction techniques that negates the need for fillers. Using filler medias that differ from the original material creates surfaces that are either softer or harder than the orginal structure (styrene). Learn to use OEM material (styrene) as your filler then you’ll have a consistancy of material when you rescribe or replace your raise lines.
Also once you are able to avoid using fillers you’ll find that you don’t have to damage as much area around the seams to get a nice smooth nonvisible seam. It took me years to get past the fill the trench method of joining parts. My use of fillers is near nill.
If you haven’t read this, then you might want to peek at it.
Remember with any filler a little goes a long ways. Better to do seveal thin layers than one thick one. I see too many modelers that trowel on the mortar (filler) when in reality only a dab is required. They just create more work for themselves. Finese, technique, tools and the proper media all contribute to less work, invisible seams and little damage to the surface features.
[#ditto] I have found that when I need to fill seams, using stretched sprue from the kit I am building is the best option. Stretch some into different diameters, and lay pieces into the area to be filled and apply some liquid glue. After a few minutes, take a tool such as a hobby knife or sharpened toothpick and mush the soft styrene where you need. After it dries, sand it down and it behaves EXACTLY the same as the plastic around it. HTH! [tup]
Give that man a cigar! [tup]
Thanks Gerald! [:D]
Hey Gerald,
Your advice is akin to “once you’re good, you’re work will be better”. [;)] Seriously, you’re right in that the logical conclusion when confronted with episode after epsisode of having to fill 'n sand is to avoid the filling in the first place, ergo, better construction at the outset.
For example, I used a technique I learned from my dad 35+ years ago of scraping my #11 x-acto on the flat, joining edges. It takes off flash and exposes fresh plastic nicely. Trouble is, if you don’t hit it exactly square it can round the exterior edge so once joined an artificial gap is created. Nothing more frustrating than doing that to a nicely molded model that woulda been fine. Old habits die hard so it’s only on this last kit that I’m finally fed up with my sometimes self-defeating practice and have resolved to leave it.
On large sections, say joining fuselage halves, I actually prefer to go a little heavy on the glue so it seeps out a bit making a nice weld-like bead. And I’m almost ready to leave any minor flash along the edge, so long as it doesn’t prevent a tight join and allow the excess glue to melt it, as well. This bead cleans off much easier and neater than filling and sanding.
The other problem is one of perception. I use a #10 lens in my opti-visor and NOTHING ever appears nice enough even though I can’t even see the imperfection minus the visor!
Thanks for help.
Thanks Daywalker,
That sounds like an excellent recommendation and clears up what Gerald said. When he said to use styrene, I thought he meant cutting, shaping and filling with Evergreen product or such. That sounded awfully tedius and pretty dicey.
I will definitely try your idea soon…veeeery soon, no doubt.
Thanks.
To get two surfaces to mate flush, I use a flat surface covered with sand paper. Here I have mounted a piece of sandpaper in place with magnets, attached to a section of table saw top extention. I picked this up at a rummage sale for a few bucks. It is great for this as well as other fabrication work that requires a level surface.
If I don’t use this method to true up the halves I will use a broad sanding stick. Using the back of a #11 blade does work, it acts as a planer blade…it can “chatter” along the surface making minute ripples in the surface. Sanding avoids this as well as helps you get a flat ][ versus )( contacts surfaces. Repeated test fitting and adjustments are key to a seamless seam.
When you say “glue” are you using tube glue or liquid? Tube glue bonds, it doesn’t weld and its consistancy of penetration varies wildly. Adding more doesn’t necessarily mean you get a better bond/closure of the surfaces. (Preaching to the choir for some I know.)
I’ve banged my head against the wall more times than I can remember. Probably why my fat head is in the shape its in. It took years of experience and practice, but what helped me “turn the corner” was mentorship from fellow modelers who at the time I considered “modeling superpowers” because of the work they produced. In those days we didn’t have places like this, we met at clubs and hobby shops to share our achievements and frustrations.
For many the practice of Watch One, Do One, Teach One helps solidify the technique. For me thats better than constant practicing to gain experience to get to a successful level of performance.
Rarely, will I go outside of the kit for materials to use as fillers. If I do I have a box with bits and piece of styrene stock…sheet and extruded pieces. Evergreen and Plastruct is expensive and I save purchasing those materials for scratchbuilding and where their use is the only way to do what needs building.
There can be as many “techniques” as there are modelers. Finding the one, two or three that works well for you to improve your skillset and modeling results, is the goal. Someone once suggested to me that I use the same kit (in mulitiples) to use various techniques to see which worked best. Fortunately, I was able to pick up several bag kits from a manufacturer for about a buck a piece. After building about a dozen of the same fuselage sections I finally discover what worked with continuity and gave me the desired results.
In todays world that probably isn’t a practical one because finding cheap bag kits is tough. So the Watch One, Do One, Teach One is more viable.
Gerald
Yesterday’s Problems + Yesterday’s Solutions = Today’s Problems
What is the difference between the green and white puddys?
Hey Gerald,
Thanks for the thorough replies and help, appreciate it.
I thought of using a sanding method like your table w/ paper deal but am a bit anal about certain things like not sanding off the locator pins. Guess you don’t worry about it? Seems like a fair trade-off to get flush and square surfaces. After all, they’re not absolutely necessary and sometimes actually inhibit a good or, at least, a better join. I’m going to try it.
I’ve used only liquid glue since my last go 'round in the early '90s. I forget the brand but it’s German or something in a white bottle, blue cap with hypo needle applicator. I’ve only found it in one hobby shop down here and can’t even locate it online. Love the stuff. Originally took to it because I could apply it far more precisely than the old tube stuff. Now, I love it’s bonding qualities and use more of it!
I do try pointers I get, that’s why I’m here. I lived long enough to know I neither want nor have to learn everything for myself. Life is too short and too much of it is behind me for that. It would also mean, by definition, one is forever condemned to making all of the mistakes others have made before him, and then some, when he doesn’t have to but for the mere asking. And the right way is more often a small change or something so simple it’s literally staring one in face and, yet, he just never sees it or if he did perceived it a risk or contrary to a foolish consistency (as in my reluctance to sand off the pins.)
I started a 1/48 Hasegawa P-38J and was doing fine until I goofed up the control panel shroud beyond repair with my dremel whilst trying to make a True Details cockpit fit. So, I bought another kit to cannabalize. Meanwhile, I f’-d up the twin fuselages with crappy joins, filling and sanding off panel lines, prompting this thread. Don’t get me wrong, only guys like you would likely notice once it’s done but I can see it, too and it just won’t do. Last night it occurred to me to redo the booms as well since I have the spare parts. I didn’t want to go “backwards” and that’s another obstinacy- bulling along down the wrong path to the bitter end when I can see it’s not going to come out well. So, using the tips and techinques I’m gaining here, I started over. I have no doubt it’s going to come out better.
Thanks.
Here’s another question for you.
How do you typically deal with the sprue tag? I have decent sprue cutters and try to cut as flush and square to the exterior surface as possible. But I’m finding this actually can create bit of a pitting problem where the surface area under the tag was pulled away or I cut a little too closely, like a razor burn, if you will. In any event, the surface is marred. I’m thinking I oughta leave just a bit of the tag and trim with knife and/or sand rather than try to cut it absolutely flush.
Also, what’s the best, sharpest sprue cutter?
Usually, damage to the piece indicates the cutter is too dull. Instead of a clean cut, its catching and pulling the plastic out. I buy spruce cutters from Squdaron or Micromark, the one with the orange handle. Xuron makes a good one, other generic ones I’ve tried doesn’t seem to stay as sharp for as long, but then its 1/2 the price of the xuron ones.
Locator pins. Typically on average quality kits they don’t locate as designed. In most cases you are better off removing them all together to facilitate accurate alignment of the parts.
Sprue tags. Well, I have been doing a lot of work on this issue. Not just for me as a modeler but as a field designer for one of the manufacturers who makes some of the best tools in our industry. In fact, a new sprue cutter is in the works and is progressing towards production. And I must say it is SWEET! I use my prototype all the time.
The primary problem with using a “cutter” is that most pinch and crush the plastic before shearing it off. This causes tearing of the plastic. The pinching also causes stretching, which contributes to the tearing, thus if you trim close to the part you end up with damage to said part. The new cutter addresses the pinching and tearing issues.
One way to eliminate cutter scurge is to remove the parts with a saw. Using a micro razor saw blade such as this one in a #1 handle allows you to flush cut the sprue away from the part with little to no indication that thats where it was attached.
Here I use the JLC saw (which I stock) to remove the sprue. Two things to note: I have the part resting on two polishing sticks to give me space under the part to allow the saw room to travel while cutting. Secondly on both I have left a sprue tag attached to the part. I removed the part from the tree leaving the tag in place. This eliminates further pulling and tearing forces on the part, which can break small thin parts in the process of removal.
Review:
Remove part from tree with a little nub remaining.
Then saw the nub flush with saw (see pictures above). Once the nub is removed…
Then you can clean up with a sanding/polishing stick. You need to keep polishing until most of the “white” outline disappears.
The less damage or residue you leave the less requirement for filling and sanding.
Thanks. What both you and the other fellow said about the cutters compressing and tearing is exactly the problem. And your solution is about what I imagined as the answer. Be interested in seeing this new cutter when its available. Keep us posted.