So as I expected with my first foray into airbrushing , I’ve run into a problem with my Tu-160. I washed the sprues in soapy water, built the model, sprayed the primer, sprayed a few coats of white paint, and now parts of the model are peeling right down to the plastic. Upon doing research i’ve heard some people say that using isopropyl alcohol on the model before spraying will help it stick better, is there any truth to this? Just for clarification I used vallejo’s gloss black primer and a mix of Tamiya X-2 (White) and XF-2 (Flat White).
What did you thin the Tamiya with I like a primer with more bite,like Tamiya Extra Fine or Mr Surfacer
I’ve read that Vallejo’s primer is not the best. But I can’t say firsthand as Ive never used it myself. But if the primer is lifting from the plastic, it certainly sounds like a problem with the primer adhesion. It doesn’t matter what paint that you use on top of the primer, if the primer does not stick to the plastic.
A final wipe down of the model surface before the build is primed is not a bad idea, but whatever is used needs to be completely dry. Not to mention the fact that Vallejo paints usually do not interact well with alcohol.
How long of time did you give the primer to dry and cure before you started painting with the Tamiya paint?
I used Tamiya’s X-20 acrylic thinner and I primed the top half first and let it dry for a day then flipped it over to do the bottom half the next day and left for another day.
It sounds like you gave adequate time for drying and curing. I’d put it down to poor adhesion of the primer. In that case, like Tony/Tojo does, try Mr Surfacer or Tamiya primers. Those I have used, and work very well.
Youll have to strip off original Vallejo primer before using any new primer, as anything applied over it will not be able to make direct contact with the plastic surface.
Yes, Sounds like you didn’t get the surface completely clean. I don’t like using soap and water because I worry that maybe I might not get all the soap rinsed off and end up with a soap film that interferes with adhesion instead of the mold release. I prefer wiping parts down with 90% Isopropyl alcohol. Not only does it do a great job of cleaning off mold release but it also evaporates really fast. Another thing to watch for is how much oil is on your fingers when you handle a part. For example, it’s possible to interfere with adhesion if you wiped your forehead with your hand and then handled a part prior to painting. Our foreheads often get really oily and it’s easy enough to not even realize that we just transfered the oil from our forehead to the model. Barrett
Thanks everyone for the advice, I think it was a mix of me not cleaning the surface thoroughly and handling it with dirty fingers. I appreciate the advice about Mr. Surfacer but I happen to have found some laying around and the smell is just too much for me so I’d rather stick with vallejo and try to work it out.
You cannnot thin Vallejo anything with X20A or ISO or any sort of alchohol. Well, you can, but it will separate to turn to globs.
I’m not going to be as kind to Vallejo primer as stikpusher was. Vallejo is my go-to paint but their primer doesn’t adhere well and it cannot be sanded. It’s high point is it self-levels like a dream and brings out surface detail as well as anthing. That might be why it’s a favorite of figure painters, I don’t know.
If you don’t need to sand it and don’t plan on masking over it, just spray the Vallejo primer neat and you’ll be fine.
I’ve always used Tamiya, but I get the financial issue.
I just got a bottle of Stynylrez (sp?) look forward to trying it.
When tape takes up paint, always look at the back of the paint on the tape. It will be primer almost always.
Another canard is that subsequent coats of whatever help hold down the previous coats. I don’t believe that.
Bill
With large parts, I give those a good scrubbing with a comet/water paste and a cheap electric toothbrush. Afterward, I use that same electric toothbrush while rinsing to make sure I get all of the comet residue off. Then comes a soak in undilluted Simple Green, followed by another rinse, and then a quick bath in 91% isopropyl alcohol…mostly to speed drying time. For primer, I have a mason jar of decanted Tamiya primer that I airbrush onto the model, and I thin that primer with MEK to give it even more bite. When I was experimenting with priming and painting techniques, I found that the above process worked best for me. About 2 hours after priming, with a scrap part from my stash, I deliberately tried to rip the primer from the plastic by using Dymo label tape (which has a really strong adhesive) . The primer stayed on the plastic, with no transfer to the tape.
See thats the thing,with today’s kits I have never once went thru that process,washing,scrubbing with comet,electric toothbrush,simple green,alcohol bath,I don’t even rinse or wipe them.Just a spray of Tamiya primer + any paint and never had any adhesion issues.Dont understand why thats all necessary.
I don’t get it,but if that’s what works.
I guess its just a habit, and I buy a lot of old kits off of Ebay, so its probably still needed. [H]
One word:acrylics.
If you use enamels, you can bypass all that prep work with no worries. Primer won’t hurt, but it’s not a necessity. At least not on an all styrene kit. Multi media kits, particularly those with resin are a different animal.
And all the best primers that I’ve used, such as Mr Surfacer or Tamiya need lacquer thinner for thinning and/or clean up of your airbrush, so there is that smell/chemical issue that so many have a problem with regarding enamel paints.
I always use alcolhol to clean my bare parts before priming. I use Tamiya primer, white or grey, sometimes Krylon for black, decanted and thined with Mr Color Leveling thinner. Then painte with whatever brand I choose; Tamiya, Mr color, Vallejo, or Creatix. Never had an adhesion issue. Vallejo on its own will not adhere well at all. I have no experience with thier primer, I find Tamiya to be perfect for priming.
BK
I wash my plastic parts in Dawn dishwashing detergent. Dawn is great for removing grease and oil. Then a wipe with alcohol. I use either Tamiya or Testor’s primer. I have never had a problem with paint peeling off of the plastic even when using masking tape.
I conducted a test just earlier. Before I painted my Tu-160 I had practiced some airbrushing on Zvezda’s Petlyakov Pe-8 which I had screwed up earlier and royally pissed me off (but that’s a story for another forum). Anyway I used the exact same vallejo primer and the same tamiya white paints on it and I never washed the parts in soapy water or alcohol; today I tried scratching it and placing masking tape on it then ripping it off and both the paint and the primer stayed on. So it got me wondering if the type of plastic on my Tu-160 was different or a lower quality material. Has anyone built Zvezda’s 1/144 Tupolev Tu-160 and had any problems with painting it?
Indeed, if you do not sufficiently rinse off soap and water, nothing will stick (like using soapy water to get off a stuck ring on your finger). It is hard to know when you have gotten all the soap off. So alcohol washes off the soap film. However, the alcohol will also rinse off the parting oil even without the soap and water first. So I just rinse it off with the alcohol.
From personal experience, unless you get every small spot of grease off your model before you prime, the Vallejo primer will peel right off (has happened quite a few times to me). Personally I do not like any of the Vallejo primer because they do not stick well to the plastic, I would go with a good lacquer based primer instead. If you do not have any other primer, than I would wipe the model down with IPA before you prime, then wear gloves while priming. Also make sure to use a good tape like tamiya tape, to strong of tape will peel the paint off as well, even if you did clean it real good before priming. If you do clean it off good with IPA, wear gloves and use a tape, like tamiya tape, then you should be fine.
P.S. your paint you have on there now is probably all ruined if it is starting to peel in some areas. You should test around to see how bad it is.
Also, just wanted to add a quick note, if using lacquer based primers then make sure you are in a well ventilated area. Gave myself quite a head ache being lazy and just spraying some in my work area.
Hey Stikpusher. I give in, I think I’ll have to get Mr Surfacer primer. I just wanted to ask that it looks as though they don’t have one in gloss black but they do have a regular black one. Would this alone work under silver or is there 500 other products i’ll have to get with it?