I’ve been researching the early Lockheed P-80 with an eye to a back-date project (most (all?) kits seem to be the -C with the underwing load.) I have Squadron’s book and have scoured the web but I can’t find clarrifications on a number of technical points (I found out more about the NACA-Ames wind tunnel than about the intakes tested in it!) I was wondering if the aviation gurus here might have any thoughts?
Intake config: the earliest P-80s did not feature splitter plates or dump louvres, but ‘duct rumble’ rapidly brought home the truth about boundary layers. How early in the production run of the YP-80A did these features appear? Does a BuAerNo exist for the specific airframe from which they were instituted?
Wing thickness: the wing was strengthened and thinned somewhere around the P-80B to -C production blocks, so backdating would call for thickening – but by how much?
Interior colors: while it’s a safe bet that for an initial-build P-80 the cockpit would be WWII Interior Green, the wheelwells of the YP-80R at the USAF Museum are painted a dark silver/aluminium. What about the interior of the flaps? Korean vintage color photos are unclear.
I look forward to any pointers you all might be able to come up with!
I probably have references for most of those questions but can’t look it up right away. Another few differences are the lack of ejection seat and a slightly fifferent canopy difference in P-80A’s. As to the thin wing, I thought that was on the P-80R racer, but just going from memory there and now.
Yes, I was considering going with a P-38 seat as the most likely thing the Skunkworks would drop into a new plane. The canopy will be pressmolded to lose the integral antenna of the late model, and the canopy base will get plenty of plastic surgery to backdate the shape and the detail behind the seat.
I look forward to any info you can locate – many thanks, it’s much appreciated!
The intake splitter plate was added during production of the P-80A-5-LO production block. It may have been retrofitted to aircraft of the P-80A-1-LO block (some 345 examples), but I do not know for sure.
As to serial numbers, (BuAerNo applies to USN/USMC aircraft only, not USAAF/USAF) I’ve not come across mention of any specific airframe as being the first with the splitter. Quoted from the P-80A page from the link above:
Whether this means it was introduced from the very beginning of production of the P-80A-5-LO, or at sometime after production commenced, I do not know. Serial numbers for the -5 are listed on that page…
The ‘thinner wing’ appears to be your typical perpetual myth… according to info from Joe Baugher, and Volume 11 of the Wings of Fame periodical, all P/F-80 and T-33 aircraft were manufactured with the same wing thickness, including the XP-80R. (which was originally the XP-80B) The leading edges of the XP-80R’s wings were sharper, but the wings were not thinner.
Cockpits… I’m working on finding photos of P-80s. I believe that they would have looked quite similar in coloration to the cockpit of the NMUSAF’s F-80C… predominantly black with green tub…
I hadn’t found those pages – thanks for the link. I’m looking at building one of the pair that deployed to Italy, so I need to match their serials/production block positions against the only photo I’ve found so far to determine what features they would have had. No airbrakes of course, and by the looks of it neither splitter plates nor dump vents.
I downloaded the T.O. 1 for the P-80A, whch has extensive cockpit details (albeit in B&W) so I’ll compare the panel layout to that -C photo you kindly posted. If possible I’d prefer to modify the kit panel than scratch something new together, though the option also exists to create the panels as decals – at cost of their dimensional depth.
At present I’m rescribing the airframe, and the old Monogram plastic is taking it vey well.
Give Gerry Asher, of Fox 3 Studios a shout: gmasher(at)netzero(dot)net. He does a beautiful resin & vac P-80A-5 conversion for the Monogram kit. It has a vac canopy (the A was different from the C) and landing light cover for the nose, a complete resin cockpit, a new part for the fuselage that moves the cockpit forward, and ALPS-printed decals. I think he also has one in 1/72. He’s also got a lot of stuff for the F-80C, as well as an RF-80A conversion, too. Gerry’s pretty knowledgeable on the F-80, so he could probably answer your questions, too. I’ve built his 1/48 P-80A, and it went together without any problems (other than the usual fit problems associated with the kit).
It’s a few months since I posted this thread and in that time I’ve searched several times for Fox-3 Studios on the web. All I’ve been able to find is a few scattered references to their products, and all of them old listings. Does anyone know if Fox-3 are still around? The email addy for Gerry Asher above didn’t connect.
Still majorly interested in this project, I have the P-80 mostly rescribed and ready to begin conversions.
A good P/F-80 would be nice in 1/48 and would be a revelation in 1/32. I doubt many modelers understand the Derwent/ J33 and why this airframe is a milestone.
It’s interesting that the first P-80 was delivered on Jan. '45. I didn’t think the USAAF got them until after the war.
First US jet in combat, first US jet to get a kill, worlds first jet on jet combat, worlds first jet on jet victory, first mid-air refuel on a combat mission. This aircraft sure did set some milestones!
