Hi guys and gals,
I read most of your topics and I dont post often. But i figured I’d post this. It is a very interesting article/website and I thought some of you might find it very informative. Sorry if this is a repost!
In 1983 I was in UPT at Williams AFB. An F-20 was brought in for us to drool over.
I spoke to the pilot (IIRC, the man who crashed in S. Korea) and asked him about the F-16 V F-20 controversy. He told me that the F-20 was superior, but only out to approx. 65% of the F-16’s combat radius. Beyond that, F-16 was superior. And since USAF doctrine for a NATO V WP war required the longer combat radius, the F-16 was the superior aquisition.
A shame, the F-5/F-20 family’s looks, to me, like the quintessential fighter. I can’t think of another jet, past,present or on the drawing board, that personifies “the fighter” like these Northrop beauties.
Fred
The F-20 evolved out of the F17, but the F-20 was really a dual purpose plane. The F17 outflew the F16 in every way but top speed. Would easilly out turn, dive faster and out climb an F16 up to a certain point. The price of the F17 came in at about 75% of what an F16 went for! They didn’t get the contract because of one big reason and another even more interesting one. General Dynamics probably has the single largest lobby in Washington, and the other even more intersting item was the way the controls were laid out and the 45 degree angle in the seat. The Generals who inspected the plane flatly said they’d never buy a plane built like that (their stupidity). Later a modified seat similar to that was added to the U.S. inventory to help the pilot withstand the G forces.
There were enough F17’s sold in Europe to pay for all the new tooling needed to build the planes (we had to pay for all of it instead), but Carter (my favorite idiot) wouldn’t let Northrup go ahead and sell them. Instead he let GD do it (whatkind of kickbacks were involved there?). The F-20 is closer to the F18 than the F17. The avionics and a few other items are identical. The F18 is really nothing but a twin engined F17 that has a beefed up landing gear and fuselage. All the avonics and control surfaces were built by Northrup, and the only thing Douglas did was the basic fuselage and assembly. Why? Because Northrup did the F17 with their own money and patented each and every piece along the way. The Government owned the rights to nothing in the plane period. Might add here that the F18 in it’s day was regarded as the single most accurate low level bomber in the world no matter what brach of service or nation.
gary
I would also like to point out that the very first airframes (A+B) of the F16 were weak. Those models are no longer in inventory.
Dont get me wrong I like the F16, I just dont like favortism. Poor Northrop; all of his major designs were clear winners.
Yeah no. The Navy has 14 A/B models at NSAWC for Adversary duties. Likewise, the USAF had another 14 A/Bs for the Test Pilots School. These were originally slated for Pakistan, but were put in storage after the arms embargo. They stayed in storage at AMARC, barely flown until 2003 when they were released to the USN and USAF. This makes them some of the lowest-time airframes in the inventory.
True, I guess there are very little are around. Some could have been upgraded. Here is a couple of paragraphs from the article. Interesting anyway, in more ways than one.
"The wing just wasn’t designed for such repetitive maneuvers, and by the late-1980’s it was apparent that all F-16A/B aircraft would require expensive wing replacements or retirement.
Once the F-20 was out of the way, the problem became public. Instead of paying to upgrade the aircraft to the design 8,000-hour airframe life, the Air Force scrapped virtually all of the 792 F-16A’s and B’s it had bought in the 1980’s after just a decade of service."
I was at Suwon when the F-20s performed and watching the day the one crashed. In fact, I help prepare its remains for shipment back to the US.
The F-20 kicked some serious butt against the other aircraft it was being compared too, including the F-16. It’s multi role capabilities were fantastic…at a much lower cost to that of the F-16. Had the mishap not happened, it was evident that the ROK as well as other Pacific rim countries were ready to buy. Had the AF bought the F-20 it would have been a done deal even after the crash. Remember the F-20 was a privately funded program, unlike the F-16. General Dynamics went on a major campaign to include production of subassemblies in other countries, so that they would be producing parts of the jet they were going to be flying. Northrop elected to do all of it in house, thus saving production costs across the board.
Much of the F-20’s componentry was off the shelf, again using proven technology already available which cut costs. The aircraft had the performance we where looking for, and had it gone into production it would have continued to evolve. Politics again intervened which cost us tax payers more and created a scandal for General Dynamics and the politicos who were accepting their ‘benefits’.
Just proves, it not what you do, its who you know.[2c]
I recall Chuck Yeager commented that the F-20 was the best fighter he ever flew, bar none.
It was faster to altitude than the F-16 (40K in 1.1 minute!).
It could scramble faster than any fighter in the world at the time.
It could out maneuver the F-16, while flying as fast or faster.
It cost less to operate, was easier to maintain, made simpler transition for pilots…the list goes on.
Its demise was mostly due to politics and an airframe that was stretched as far as it would go. And frankly, for its intended market, the latter made little difference. When Reagan OK’d the sale of F-16’s overseas, the end was in sight.
let me say this: according to one member of the F17 design team, the F17 / F20 / and even the F18 to a certain extent could turn inside an F16. It could turn so tight and fast that the pilot couldn’t stand the G force generated. Actually you can credit Carter for killing the F-17 and F20. Carter doomed the whole airframe from the getgo. The F-20 arrived as a stop gap plane to sorta satisfy folks that were putting up a lot of words to the right people. But before they even built the first plane they already knew they Fed wasn’t buying any. No doubt in my mind Carter and his cronys were on the take from day one. Just like he left 315 POW’s begind in Laos.
gary