Need help with Dragon's Abrams kits, guys

Modeling Subjects Armor
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I have 2 Abrams kits in the stash - Shanghai/Dragon’s #3531 USMC M1A1HC (ODS) & Dragon’s # 3524 U.S. Army M1A2. I understand the 1st kit is fairly accurate but can someone please tell me if the other kit is accurate too?

It has a box-like structure which is meant to be attached to the rear hull - is this the APU? The front page of the instructions mention the A2 was fitted with the CITV - not sure if the kit includes this & what does it look like anyway. The commanders 50cal has a different arrangement for fixing to the cupola than the other kit & it has the MCD in front of the loaders hatch.

Thanks & all help much appreciated

2

Shaun,

The M1A2 kit is reasonably accurate for the period it represents. The .50 cal installation is different to the M1A1’s. On the M1A2 it is known as the ICWS or Improved Comander’s Weapon station. The cupola itself is different in the A2 kit as compared to that in the A1 kit.

It has the CITV instead of the MCD in front of the loader’s hatch. MCD is different and is not included in kit #3531, but is included in #3533.

The box at the rear of the hull is the “early” hull mounted APU (which I believe shouldn’t be used on an “A2”). The kit lacks the bustle rack APU.

When you come to build either kit, you will find the “short” end of the turret side rails don’t meet the side of the turret. You will need some .030 rod to make replacements.

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Phil is correct on all accounts. The hull-mounted APU was not used on M1A2s. The turret bustle rack APU is/was used on them, but not all have/had them installed.

As a note, all M1A2s in field service are painted in overall Sand. Testors Model Master Sand, FS 33531, is the best match to the actual color. Also, 1 CAV, 4 ID, and 3 ACR are the only units that were fielded with M1A2s. All 3 units had a mix of M1A2 and M1A2 SEP tanks in OIF when they were in Iraq in 2003 through 2005. Currently, all M1A2s have been upgraded to M1A2 SEP standards.

For more info, here is an article I wrote about Abrams types and their development at Armorama.

Good luck.

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Thanks Phil & Arty - read your armorama article this morning Gino, which prompted me to do a bit more digging & posting my ? here. So built as-is in NATO cam, the kit really only represents an early variant of the A2 & therefore is not strictly accurate for a more current pre-SEP vehicle. That explains why I got it so cheap from evilBay. I was kinda hoping I had a proper late 90’s/early 00’s Army A2 to leave in NATO cam for OIF deployment, to sit beside my ODS USMC A1HC[B)]

EDIT: So what to do with the kit now? Is there a company out there with an after-market APU pack for the turret bustle? Since the kit already has the CITV & ICWS, this seems the best way to go.

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I went back & had a look at the bits in the A1HC kit & Dragon have included the parts for the earlier APU pack for the hull rear. With this in mind, can I then accurately do a USMC A1HC from ODS with that style of APU? That way I can use the turret APU for the Army A2…

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The rear hull mounted APU is only correct for some US Army M1A1 tanks from stateside in ODS. Not all had them and no USMC M1A1HC tanks had them during or after ODS. Also, the USMC did not have any of their own M1A1HC tanks in ODS. They were loaned a Bn of Army M1A1 tanks, with Army 6-shot smoke launchers. Another BDE from the Army (2nd “Tiger” BDE from 2 AR) was assigned to the USMC to provide additional heavy armor support with their M1A1s. The USMC was in the middle of fielding their first Bn of M1A1HCs when ODS broke out and they were not ready to deploy.

The USMC M1A1HC doesn’t have to have the turret mounted APU, neither does the M1A2. They are issued with them, but not all retain them. Sometimes they are damaged or break down and are removed by the crew to allow for more storage. The power junction box should still be on the top of the turret though where the APU connects.

Basically, the M1A2 is correct for one in OIF, it just depends on how up to date you want it to be. All the current M1A1/A2 models on the market need something added to bring them to the latest standards, even Dragon’s new M1A1AIM.

The only M1A2s that were in NATO 3-tone camo were test vehicles and a few as trainers at the Armor School at Ft Knox. They have all been sand since fielding.

I don’t know of any AM turret bustle APU out there. I would just pick which one you want to have it and go that way. You could also post at Armorama or Missing-Lynx Buy, Sell, Trade forums and see if anyone has an extra APU.

Here is some more M1 update info:

US Army M1A1HC/AIM Upgrades

EPLRS antenna mount, thin post to the right side of regular antenna.

APU Power Junction box. New electrical conduit is the angle-iron piece running along the left side of the blow-out panel.

Power connection box next to the man-hole cover. There are two screw caps to connect to located on the front of the connector, toward the front of the tank.

PLGR antenna is mounted somewhere on the turret roof. It is usually in front of the crosswind sensor. I have also seen it to the front right of the TC’s cupola as well. The location for it varies.

Tank/Infantry Phone and rear Slave Cable Receptacle on right rear of hull on latest AIM tanks.

Deep fording kit exhaust flange on HCs and AIMs.

Forward MCB power/control box connector next to driver’s hatch.

Check Prime Portal for more M1A1 and M1A2 pics.

Check out my M1 Variants Article as well for more info and pics.

USMC M1A1HC/AIM Upgrades

You still need to add some things to the Dragon M1A1 AIM to bring it up to current standards for a USMC M1A1HC (Heavy Common) though. Here is a short list of items to add to it.

Change out the smoke launchers to the USMC 8-shot, double-stacked type.

EPLRS antenna mount, thin post to the right side of regular antenna.

APU Power Junction box. New electrical conduit is the angle-iron piece running along the left side of the blow-out panel.

Power connection box next to the man-hole cover. There are two screw caps to connect to located on the front of the connector, toward the front of the tank.

PLGR antenna is mounted somewhere on the turret roof. It is usually in front of the crosswind sensor. I have also seen it to the front right of the TC’s cupola as well. The location for it varies.

Tank/Infantry Phone and rear Slave Cable Receptacle on right rear of hull on latest AIM tanks.

Deep fording kit exhaust flange on HCs and AIMs.

Forward MCB (Mine Clearing Blade) power/control box connector box next to driver’s hatch. (only on later USMC M1A1 AIMs)

The box in front of the loader’s hatch is an MCD (Missile Countermeasure Device). It is used to defeat optically and laser guided anti-tank missiles.

Some USMC M1A1HCs are using the old sprocket guards as well. The older T-156 Chevron Block track had an issue with jumping off the sprockets. The newer T-158 Bigfoot track solved the problem. Originally developed for the M1IP the USMC started putting the rings back on M1A1s that were stationed stateside in the early-mid nineties. It was an easy fix to counter the track losing tension during operation. The USMC tanks that came off of the Maritime Preposition Ships (MPS) in Kuwait for OIF I /II do not have the sprocket rings. The USMC tanks that you see in IRAQ with Retaining Rings are from stateside (1st or 2nd Tank Bn). They are part of the different ocean-going Marine Expeditionary Units (MEU) that have gone to Iraq and participated in the festivities over the past few years. So, specific USMC tanks could be seen with the rings applied. The below pic is a USMC M1A1HC in ops in Iraq.

For the USMC BRE used in OIF.

Eduard makes one in PE, set # 35598. There is also one in the new(ish) Academy M1A1 Iraq 2003 kit. It is one of the few good pieces off the new J sprue. It also has a T/I Phone box on the new sprue. The rest of the kit sucks though. The Dragon M1A2 SEP kit comes with a nice PE and plastic one as well.

You can take a look at my M1 Variants Article as well for more info and pics.

You can also take a look at my USMC M1A1HC that I did a while ago.

“Angry American”, USMC M1A1HC

Hope it isn’t too much info. Good luck.

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No, not too much info at all Gino. Thanks a heap. Sometimes I wonder why I bother wasting time trawling the net looking for some of this info (most of it is in incorrect or out of date anyway, or the pics are inconclusive), when all I have to do is post a q? here & wait for your response.[#toast]

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No problem, glad to help. Keep us posted on your progress.

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I take it the APU junction box on top of the turret needs to be scratch-built, & where does the angle-iron conduit run to from there?

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The Tamiya M1A1/A2, Trumpeter’s versions, Academy’s new M1A1 USMC 2003, and Dragon’s M1A1AIM all come with the APU junction box. Sorry, you have two of the only kits without it. The angle iron runs straight forward and connects to the angle iron conduit already running across the turret for the smoke launchers.

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OK guys, I have a couple of questions regarding units & M1 use, & I apologise in advance for the duplication:

1 Does the DML kit #3531 have all the decals needed to properly finish an ODS USMC A1HC (it seems a bit sparse), or do I need to source some others?

2 DML’s kit of the A2 only shows a Germany based NATO tank. As I am doing an OIF Army A2, could I please get a rundown of which units used this vehicle in 2003, & the maker of the relevant decals/stencils

Thanks heaps

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1: #3531 really represents a post ODS vehicle. The USMC “borrowed” 60 US Army M1A1’s during ODS.

2: As far as I am aware, there are no AM decals for the M1A2 at the present time, though Echelon are working on a set.

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The M1A2 has only been used by III Corps units and at the Armor School at Ft Knox, KY. None have been used in Europe. All in front line units are painted sand. A few from the Armor School (depicted in the DML M1A2 SEP Kit) are NATO 3-tone camo.

The III Corps units that used them in OIF 1 (Invasion) were/are 4ID (M1A2 and M1A2 SEP) and 3ACR (all M1A2). The other unit that has them is 1st Cav. They have all been over a couple times since. 1st Cav is currently there and 4ID and 3 ACR are preparing to replace them in the spring of '08.

The Tamiya M1A1/A2 OIF kit has proper decals for a 3 ACR M1A2. DML’s new M1A2SEP has decals for 1 Cav and 4ID M1A2 SEP tanks. Also, the 4ID (4I 3-66 AR) decals in the Academy M1A1 Abrams “Iraq 2003” kit are actually for a 4ID M1A2 SEP as well. There are no AM decals for any M1A2s/M1A2 SEPs at this time. Echelon is supposed to be working on a set though.

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Thank you gentlemen

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There is a slight chance that the M1A2 was used in Europe. I recall 1st Cav deployed a brigade to the Kosovo/Bosnia theater. I thought one of the straight M1A2 battalions went there. The tank would have been overall desert sand though.

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Rob, I was in 1st Cav as a LT at the time they went to Kosovo/Bosnia, I believe it was '96 or '97. I don’t think they took their tanks. If I remember correctly, they went with only Bradleys and HMMWVs. I could be wrong though; my memory has gotten a little fuzzy over the years.

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Rob, Gino: I mention Germany for the A2 because DML’s paint chart indicates the tank in NATO cam labelled USAREUR with these decals 1^2^6 7 on the RH front & HQ 7 on the LH front. Don’t know if those details help you or not

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1st Armor Division never fielded the M1A2, just the M1A1. I’ve seen the photo they replicated the bumper number off of. It is an M1A1 that is misidentified as an M1A2.

I wasn’t sure what they took, I was just coming out of my second command and PCSing from Hood when the Brigade was ramping up for deployment. I didn’t pay too much attention because I was just glad my 4 years worth of 14 hour days was finally over.

I remember every Friday we would sarcastically exclaim, “It’s Friday, only two more work days until Monday!”

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Question for HeavyArty:

Would you be able to repost some of the pictures you posted in your upgrade reply? Some of them don’t seem to be visible anymore. Thanks.

Gus

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Unfortunately, the site on which the pics were hosted closed down several months ago.

I posted links to some alternative pics in another thread here. Scroll down just over half-way down the first page in the thread to find my post with the links.