PLUS he says that it looks like super cool and futuristic…do you see any truth to what he says about this tank if it went head to head with another one on the battlefield??[:^)]
by the way, if it matters…he’s not a modeller just a guy interested in AFVs
Well the Merkava I did great against T-62s and T-72 when it was new. and has been consistanly upgraded to keep pace with armor developments. It certainly has the capability to kill any other MBT.
In any tank vs tank match up,would have to consider crew training,and the circumstance in which the tanks encountered each other,ie element of surprise,distances and so forth.I mean it’s not like the the two tanks line up facing each other at 100 yds and start shooting at each other.on paper I imagine each tank would have it’s advantages and disadvantages,but in a battlefield encounter,so many other factors would determine the outcome.
Your friend knows nothing about real tanks to make such a statement. Basically all the current generation NATO tanks (Abrams, Leopard, Merkava, Ariete, Challenger, etc.) mount the same basic 120mm main gun and have the same basic armor and vehicle design. They are all pretty equal. All of them will also shred just about any Russian or Chinese tank as well. To say that any of them would be more effective at taking on another tank than any other would is not accurate. They are all pretty equal and it comes down to the crews’ proficiency. The best, modern tank will loose every time to an inferior tank whose crew is untrained.
My friends say a lot of things, mostly about things they have no idea about…
Looking super cool is a battlefield multiplier. Definitely gives you a leg up on any other tank. Of course, at 3,000m (roughly 2 miles) in thermal sights, all tanks tend to look alike. That would negate any degree (super, way, very, etc.) of cool looking mulitplier the tank may posses.
I would say that an experienced Israeli tanker would tear up anything, if the battle was fought on their own turf. It is not just the tank. The Merkava was designed for the terrain it will likely fight on in the Levant. It was also designed in partnership with tankers. I would not want to go against an Israeli tanker on their own turf.
While definately true, I wouldn’t want to go against ANY highly trained tank crew on their own turf… Technology definately helps, but as Gino said, training is key too - think of all those Iraqi tank crews: Home turf, yes… training? Ahh, not so much…
those were “export” T72’s. A different animal from the ones the Russians use. A 105mm SABOT is good enough to half track any tank in the world today, let alone a 120mm SABOT
gary
Your friend reminds of an exchange between two keyboard commandos I read on a gaming site forum once upon a time… Both were about 13 and knew EVERYTHING about military weapons and weapons systems… The first one says something like, “The M16 is a POS coz it’s mayd bye a toy company”, and the other Ram-bozo shot back with, “Bull… I know that its a gud gun coz and will kill anything coz my friend lets me shot his BB gun and that looks like a M16…”
Tell him he watches too much “Deadliest Warrior” on Spike and that he should talk to tankers instead of yapping about that which he does not know… The Armor Forum at Military DOT com" is good site to LEARN some things… Just tell him not to post any of his “knowledge” in there… Those’re REAL tread-heads in there and they can be a surly lot…
Most Western MBTs could penetrate each other’s frontal hull, but not frontal turret with a sabot shot. All other areas (sides, back) are obviously weaker and probably be penetrated by HEAT shots as well.
Israeli tankers with experience dealing with tanks are probably all retired. Those armor crews with the most anti-armor experience are probably American and British crews from the 1st gulf war. I want to add Iraqi crews to the list. But they’re mostly dead or their skills have been too degraded by inactivity to count.
So yes, the Merk could take out ANY modern MBT. But so can a kid with a stone aged RPG with a shot to the rear hull. Or in a tank duel, most modern MBT can also penetrate a Merk front with a hull shot.
Actually I believe the frontal armor on a Merkava is actually thinner as it is where the engine is. The crew compartment is located in the rear where the engine normaly would be so the armor there should be thicker there.
I don’t know if the armor itself is thinner up front, but the concept was to have the engine up front to act as additional armor protecting the crew compartment. Crew survivability was one of the top priorities for the Merkava design team based upon the Israeli Armored Corps experiences in the 1973 Yom Kippur War.
I don’t know what is fact or not since I am not an armor guy but my son’s friend at SOI Camp Pendleton was a TOW gunner and he told me that the Merkava was the baddest tank out there and he had to study recognition and design of enemy and ally tanks. I agree with others though that it is, as always, the skill and or mistakes of the operator of the equipment that makes the difference in battle. Much like a person like Mike Tyson fighting a smaller guy like Bruce Lee, it’s all in who makes the mistake that allows the opponent to take advantage and win.
With all due respect to my anti-tank brethren, don’t put too much stock in what TOW gunners have to say. Not that they don’t know a little bit about armor, they do. However, they focus primarily on recognition and only secondarily on characteristics. So, the things they learn about the tank are pretty basic…
That all being said, the Merkava is definately not a tank to be trifled with…
I played a bunch of Battlezone back in the day, thse UFO thingies were definatly the toughest. [:P]
Somewhat true. Some gunners never learned much beyond “friendly or enemy”. But as for me, I took it upon myself to learn all I could about the bad guys stuff, when I was a TOW gunner.[proplr]
And yes, Battle Zone was a very fun game back in the day… I spent alot of coinage there.
Now that really takes me back - I loved that game.
Just as in real life, there were two types of people who played Battlezone - those who tried and failed and those who could really play.
Most were in the first category. They tended to pivot on the spot trying to line up their taget and presented a sitting duck target to the “opponent”. Typically, the game was over in 2 minutes with a score of maybe 5000 points. The UFO was really a passive target intended to cause target fixation so you forgot about the other bad guy on the field trying to shoot you.
The real players kept moving and advancing, shooting on the move and eventually encountering tougher (and higher kill value) opposition (Super Tanks, Missiles - those missiles were nasty!) Each opponent type required you to learn different tactics to take them out. Super tanks were smaller and faster, Missiles zigzagged across the screen until they straightened out and did a straight run in at you. Those who really learned how to play would score in the 50000+ range.
Manouverability is as important a part in the equation as firepower and armour.
As in real life, what it comes down to is experience (training) and tactics. [:D]
I read of a story from the first gulf war where an m1a1 had been disabled and the crew evacuated. The other tanks in the unit opened fire at point balnk range and all the succeded in doing was blowing out the pannels above the ammo and nocking the gun out of allignment. A recovery vehicle came and took the tank back and had it up and running inside of 24 hrs. That said any Isreali tank is going to be at least as armoured, if not more. Tehy have to make thier tanks count in battle in a way few other countries have to, as well as having more enemies at their borders than most other countries.
Yeah I don’t think there’s that much difference between modern Western MBTs. I suppose I’d spot the Merkava some advantage on the defensive because that’s what it’s designed for, with a corresponding disadvantage on the attack.
And I loved Battlezone though I was one of those guys in Phil_H’s first category. I loved the game but frankly not to mince words… I sucked…
If anyone is interested here’s a link to the Atari 2600 version on-line. Sure the 2600 version isn’t the arcade but hey, it’s free! Just click for the B page, click the box, and wait for it to load. They also have the Activision BZ inspired game Robot Tank.
I’ve love to find an arcade BZ these days. Found a vintage Galaga machine on vacation and it really took me back a few years.