Yup, I was image searching again… look close at the turret insignia on these Leopard 2s, it is the same one as worn by tanks of the WWII 11th Panzer Division
Does anybody know if Bundeswehr Heer units carry the lineage of WWII Wehrmacht Heer units as would be indicated by this? I would have thought that improbable with the post war de nazification efforts, but this seems to indicate otherwise.
Edit- and in color
Very cool
Manny might know
Yeah, I posted this over where he is active now as well. I am just curious if anyone here would know. I thought it was pretty cool myself and am really thinking about adding these markings to my Leopard 2 build.
what kind of leopards are those
I am surprised to see this on modern German armour, but there was modern German air force unit, JG 74, which in 1973 was given the honourary name ‘Molders’. But in 2005 this was removed when the Parliment felt that Modlers had not done anything to oppose the goverment of the time.
Maybe it was felt that the 11th Pz were not associated directly with the goverment of Hitler. It could be this was an un official marking added by the troops.
Leopard 2s. A4 variant I think. ut before the A5/A6 with its’ added armor on the turret front.
Bish, I had wondered about that happening as to why it is no longer used by that wing. I always thought that Galland was more deserving of a wing name for his leadership in the Jagdwaffe, and his oppposition to the Nazi heirarchey at the end of the war.
I had to look that up myself. Apparently the issue was raised in 98 and a decision made in 2005.
You have a good point, surely there could have been no complaint about Galland.
You know, this could just be a platoon with these markings? But maybe because it was Rommels ghost division, that they thought itd be okay, because rommel opposed Hitler and was forced to take cyanide, so i guess it coul be a tribute?
I thought that about Rommel myself Tankluver. But then i remembered that Rommel commanded the 7th Pz Div. It was called the Ghost Div because of the way he commanded it. This insignia was used by the 11th Pz Div.
Wasnt colonel staufenburg in the 11th panzer in africa, it could be for him?
He was with the 10th in Africa, and didn’t serve with the 11th at all. The only Pz Div’s in Africa were the 10th, 15th and 21st.
Maybe they just thought it was a cool insignia, and as there is no obvious link with the 3rd Reich, no one said anything.
Well the photos are from 1986. A different political climate than today, and the height of the Cold War in Central Europe. I seem to recall a LOT of tension in the world at that time. That insignia in these photos was indeed from 11th Panzer. IIRC, 10th Panzer used the outline of a Bison on some of their tanks in North Africa, but I seriously doubt that this was any sort of tribute of that sort. I suspect that if there is no continued lineage between Bundeswehr Heer units and Wehrmacht Heer units (quite probable in my mind), that some junior leader, who was a history buff on Panzers was able to get this insignia applied to their unit. Although I have been on a Bundeswehr kick lately looking for my next project and when looking thru decal options on some of the kits in my stash have found more than one unit insignia that has a WH WWII counterpart or part incorporated into the BH unit marking.
Zomb thread resurrection…
A few days ago I finally found the answer- the 3rd Company of the 64th Panzer Battalion, 2nd Panzer Grenadier Division Bundeswehr is the unit. The actual battalion insignia is a horseshoe with a wolf leaping across. But for some reason the 3rd company adapted the ghost Panzer insignia as their own. As for the rest, my German is too rusty to understand.
Lol… this is an interesting thread though. Nonetheless, that ghost insignia does look really cool on those Leopard’s!
That it does. One of these days, I will build one.
I find that strange also. I don’t pretend to know about how there army was organised post war. But during the war years the army was not part of the Nazi organization but army personnel could join the Nazi party. Hitler never fully trusted the army felt it was full of anti Nazis. and especially in there high comand
If other units kept there insignia that could be a cool way to display then and now builds.
JG-71 Hartmann
Hartmann’s “tulip” nose design was a personal insignia. Like Galland’s cigar smoking Mickey Mouse. After his release from Soviet captivity, Hartmann served with the Bundesluftwaffe, as did other WWII aces.
The 11th Panzer’s ghost was an official unit insignia. But as stated above the BLW had a Richthofen Geschwader that used a unit insignia very similar to the unit badge of JG.2 Richthofen.
Just interesting to me. There are other examples of official and unofficial insignia that are from the Third Reich or before that are incorporated into various Bundeswehr emblems, badges, etc.
The Luftwaffe did name the wing after Hartmann.
It’s a nice topic.
I am on the same look-into as you. The post war airforce is pretty interesting to me.
I spent a month in the DDR in 1979 working on my batchelor’s thesis in archictecture on the Bauhaus. Don’t blow me up as some “elite”.
First of all, I thank and respect those who served in Germany in the Cold War. I saw the other sides forces in a big way while I was over there.
So, I like the subject of NATO a lot.
Not an armor guy.
My interest would be in units, deployments, bases, exercises, etc.
Maybe the wrong question in a model builders forum. But gosh, Fulda Gap, Berlin Brigade. All very interesting stuff, not well covered AFAIK in books because it wasn’t “Hot”.
Whew!, don’t know what else to say.
Nah, no worries about me blowing you up as elite for your studies. I do find your thesis location to be most unusual. Not exotic, but due to the time and place definitely not the usual.
A lot of those places that you named have changed so much. Rhein Main AFB in Frankfurt was being turned back over to the Germans when I last passed thru there coming off R&R in 2005. It was not the same as when I went thru there in 1984 in and out of Germany during REFORGER.
I have been finding more and more websites with all sorts of stuff about the Cold War and Germany. Those names you mention (and so many more) are heavy with history to many a GI for generations and decades. And thank God that it never did go hot there…
But it makes for great modeling subjects.