Maybe I'm getting old. Maybe I'm just looking for something to complain about.

General Discussion General Modeling Discussion
1

But I have to rant for a second.

In the last couple of weeks I’ve observed on two different occasions people complaining about faults or problems they see in kits that arent even on the market yet!
They see CAD drawings or sprue shots and find things wrong with the kit. OMG, give me a break!!!
Nowhere is the manufacuter complimented for working on new kits for us. Nowhere are any positive things mentioned about the kit, like what’s right about it.
No, people with lots of time and no lives are pouring over drawings and test shots looking for something wrong.
It’s unbelievable and sometimes, like today, it makes me want to scream. Why can’t folks look at the positive and be happy that we are able to build models at all. Why can’t they be happy that manufacterers are releasing new kits and putting forth the effort to offer products that are improvements over past products.

These things I see make me all the more happy to read posts like the recent post in A/C about kit price limits and some of the comments made there. Doing it the old fashion way with the meager offerings available. And being happy to do it.
I swear that if a company gets the shape right, someone will b###ch about the cord. If they get the cord right someone will b###ch about the hinges. If they get the hinges right someone will b###ch about the fabric detail. If that’s right they’ll b###ch about the stitching detail. If that’s right they’ll complain about the wrong fabric detail was used. Because everyone knows that they didn’t use malaysian cotton on the plane in the month of production, it’s obviously supposed to be Egyptian cotton!
It all really makes me like certain folks less and less.

Does it affect me directly? Nope. Will I lose sleep over it? Nope. Will I model inspite some microscopic detail being incorrect? Yep. Will I model over some BIG detail being incorrect? Yep.
But d#mn, people, why can’t we just love the hobby? Build models without stressing ourselves over insignificant things like fabric detail or length being off a scale farking half inch.
Or better yet, not extend the annal stress out into cyber oblivion in order to have others stress over it.

Not long ago I read a post (not here) where someone was stressing HUGE over a detail on a plane. They went into this big detailed post about what was supposed to be wrong with the kit and wanted the forum public at large to tell them what they should do about it. The kicker? One of the last lines in the post was something like “I really can’t see a problem with it but…”
They admitted they can’t see the supposed problem but were all worked up over it and wanted someone else to tell them how to fix what they couldn’t see!!! That’s a sure sign that none of the kit/manufactering bashing is doing anyone any good.

Now that I’ve vented I feel much better. I hope you’ve smiled at my own ranting about something not being quite right. But it’s something I think about from time to time. And now, I’m going to go grind on my 1/48 SR-71 that everyone knows is just the most perfect kit ever produced.[;)]

2

I’m with ya on this my friend. Why is it that the negative comments and attitudes are the loudest and most heard? The vocal minority in this hobby are making it uncomfortable through this new conduit of communication…the Internet and forums such as this one.

I have taken my lumps [blkeye] on other forums trying to stand my ground to express my viewpoints. There are those who though agree with me, will not share the pain on the cross of public opinion They do share their feelings with me privately. I’m glad I am not alone in my opinion!

Someone recently shared with me his opinion as to why these people bash kits.The Internet gives them a security otherwise not afforded them in a face to face environment. I wonder how many knuckle sandwiches would be served had some of these people been in the same room while having the same controversial conversations?I’d probably deliver a few. [;)]

So this hobby of ours becomes a relief mechanism…a check valve. Anyone can create an alias identity and speak as they feel regardless if it shows a lack of respect for others, including mfrs, distributors and retailers. You don’t like something fine, address it in the proper way…direct it to the source don’t dwell on it here in a public forum. I for one get tired of hearing the tirades over and over again. If the product isn’t to your personal liking okay, it is however to millions of others. Your “perfect” model will come in time and who knows maybe even at an affordable price.

A good example of a company that is apparently doing it right is Wingnuts. Has anyone heard of anyone bashing their products before they hit the streets? Not that I have heard. Why. Because these guys didn’t go around bashing others, they went and proved it could be done. So to those who belly ache and complain about the imperfect kits…go do what they did…show us how it is suppose to be done! Quit being a forum bully and put up or shut up already.

You know…what if we had the ability to look at each person before they were born to see what they looked like and how they would act? Nope not this one, it has fatal flaws!!! [N] I wanted a boy not a girl or vice versa. You got the nose too big. The toes are splayed too far. How many of those we hear complaining would be around to do so? [whstl]

The only way to eliminate these conversations is for the mfr to cater to their every whim, but that is an impossible feat. You can not be all things to all people. Or heavily moderate these forums…have a penalty system in place…with warnings, suspensions and revocation of membership. The technology is in place to block IP addresses.The hosts have that right, you are here at their pleasure. But as they say the blade swings both ways it would cost something.

So we must persevere to endure, thicken our skin and learn to ignore those which try to steal our joy. Slip on your rubber boots and prepare for a little rain…or someone pissing on your shoes. [:@] They aren’t leaving anytime soon unfortunately.

3

I agree with you guys 100% and then some! In the end, I do like it I do in real life when a supervisor at work goes on about some incident that occured and I was not party to… tune it out and go about my business. I am always happy to see new releases. I may not be able to afford most of them these days, and really could care less about some tiny detail being wrong, I just like seeing what can be done. I just wish it could be done less costly. Thats what a big stash and ebay are for…[whstl]

4

I agree. When Monogram first released their century series of 1/48 scale aircraft I jumped on them as soon as possible. I bought several of each only to later read some of the reviews on each kit. Not a single positive comment on them. The shape of this is all wrong. The shape of that is all wrong. To me they looked good, so I tuned them out and continued to build them.

The 1/48 scale RA-5C from trumpeter has had more negative comments than good. I could care flipping less if the shape of the nose isn’t 100% correct. To me it looks just fine. So what if the tail cone isn’t correct. How much sleep am I going to loose over that one?

If I am going to build a kit of an aircraft that I know inside and out, I’ll take the time to fix what errors can be fixed and leave the rest alone.

This same topic came up about five or six years ago on this site. Some one commentd that some people tear a new kit apart so they can be first in line. They can then say," I told you so". They get enjoyment out of being the critic of bad things. They can dish it out but they can’t take it.

I am in this hobby to enjoy it, not work my self into a heart attack. I very seldom pay much attention to these type of people.

5

Bernie,

Looking back how many of those imperfect model won contest and are proudly displayed that were built essentially OOB? Probably most of them even if they were so badly flawed. I guess people don’t appreciate what they have as much anymore. Sad isn’t it.

6

I call it “Keyboard courage”. People are a lot braver when they can hide behind a nickname on an anonymous forum. I’ve always tried to conduct myself as if the person I am communicating with can reach over and punch me on the nose.

People who only complain, do so as it builds up their esteem, or so they think. It’s one reason I just scan reviews. I’m looking for obvious and gross errors in construction, I don’t really care if the wingspan is off by 2". In the scales I prefer to build in it is quite moot. I care if there are gigantic warp and fit issues.

7

I would be tempted to agree except for one thing

the Wildcat was corrected

the Bf-109 got a new canopy and people can get the corrected part if they already bought the kit

Kinetic attempted to fix the F-16 nose

and just today, there are new pics of the Dragon Bf-110 with the correct slats for the leading edge

so, the companies have/do listen, and sometimes fix the parts

kinda funny in a way, always reading that everything is “close enough”,and then buying mags with cool builds of how to do a sub type of plane from an existing kit or kits,that -6 Cougar, for example,I really enjoyed seeing how to do one for my shelves,if “close enough” was my only option,a -8 with -6 decals would have done it well enough,instead we got treated to an article to “do it right”

reviews aren’t supposed to be shill adds for products,they are supposed to point out mistakes,or they are not credible

8

Its one thing to say a kit has a problem with the shape of this or that. But its another to rail on the manufacturer and shout to the world this kit is fatally flawed and unbuildable. Dragon’s P-51 though not perfect still was a bargain kit. It was big, it looked like a P-51 and they sold out more than one production run of it…and release other variants which also sold. It was a fun build.

I think what upsets most people is the choice of words used to describe the overall quality of a kit. Fatal is just that dead…can’t be revived. DOA. Even the Sham Wow guy isn’t as blatant as some of the posters we see posting their opinions of quality and what manufacturers should do to satisfy a small minority of consumers.

All those kits from the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s and on are still in demand. Whether they are being requested as rereleases or just finding a long OOP kit on eBay to satisfy a craving for them. If they are so bad then why do they still appeal to so many, flaws and all?

I agree a review should point out mistakes, but remember these are still in the category of TOYS. If you want museum quality then one needs to look into building some of those expensive and exact museum grade models…that is if they are willing to shuck out hundreds of dollars to finally get a kit that is indeed accurate.

I met a modeler who has only ever built Tamiya kits. He says kits like Revell and Monogram are not quality models. What he really said in volumes to me was (and he actually agreed later) that his skills as a modeler are not sufficient enough to build them. The other fact he admitted to was he wasn’t doing it for fun, just something to do. When I queried why then does he do them, he again admitted he doesn’t do anything crafty well at all and he hates fishing. He is of the type of personality that only works with the .

I think what is best is that everyone ease back on both sides.

9

I’ll ease back, no problem

joined 4 1/2 years ago, less than 40 posts,‘back’ is where I normally am

but, I also have almost all of the plastic I “need” for my collection, too

I only need one more Fujimi A-7 for the intakes, and one more Falcon conversion for the Canopy,then I’ll have what I need to fix both of the TA-7’s I was soooo happy to have ordered,and soooo sad to have seen when they got here,the parts to fix those are the same parts I could have used in the first place to do the conversion

but, that’s not what’s important,it’s only money,it sure would be cool if someday there was a “peer preview” system for new kits,ironing out things ahead of time, before the final molds were cut,that would eliminate most of the outcry at release time

10

After thinking about it for a while and reading the posts here I think I have figured out what bugs me so much about the kit picking (get it?? hehe)
Like some have alluded to, I believe there is a certain small minority of folks who feel like there is some kind of unspoken competition to find the first problems or error in a new release. They think if they find it first and post it first then they are somehow the cock of the rock, to be awed by everyone around. They feel they must demonstrate their higher intellegence of the subject in order to prove themselves. or maybe they are compensating for something else…
In a nutshell it’s arrogance. And I loathe arrogant people. In the end it’s not the act of the nit picking, it’s the arrogance of the picker. “Hey! look at me! I just found 57 stiches in this 1/35 scale figures ruck sac instead of 56! Where’s my medal?” I wonder how long it’s been since that guy built a model anyway?

It’s to bad others stress about the pickers follies. And it’s to bad a manufacterer may delay a release and spend a few thousand more to fix something tiny and then charge us another $10 on that $100 kit. Know what? Like Gerald said, if a company made a perfect kit it would cost hundreds if not thousands of $. And the first thing someone would do is complain that nobody could afford it.
I have to chuckle sometimes.

A note here about reviews. I believe there is a need in the industry for the review as long as the review is honest and straight forward, provides correct info and points out areas of the kits to watch for while building the kit. IMHO, in box reviews are worthless as I don’t care what it looks like in the box, how many bags the sprues are in, how big or well printed the instruction sheet is. I want to know how well it’s molded, how it fits together and what problem areas to look out for when I build it. And to provide that info someone has to build it.
A good review is a valued resource but I don’t have much faith in them in general. It’s been my own experience that reviews can be outright worthless at times and at their worst, lip service to the manufacterer. I don’t believe for a second that if a kit sucks and the reviewer says it sucks and tells you why, that said reviewer is going to keep getting free samples for long. So I tend to think most of them are sugar coated to a point.
There are some folks who put right in their reviews that they paid for the kit out of their own pocket and I find that respectable.I tend to give those reviews more merrit.

So, I’m done now.
That’s all I’ve got to say about that. Now where’d I put that DA sander???

11

Folks want to be the first. The first to point out an error. No one wants to give a kit the thumbs up only to have a Johnny Comelately expert point out an obvious (to that Johnny) mistake. Therefore, everyone wants to be able to find a fault or two so that when Johnny points out an error, the other Johnny can toss an error in his face that he missed.

12

Perhaps the “kitpickers” are merely fulfilling a need to project an image of themselves as “History Heavyweights”, whose knowledge of a particular subject is over and above that of mere mortals.

That, or they have too much time on their hands.

13

Actually, I think it is a form of jealousy. Having lived the life of an unpaid online reviewer, I think a lot of guys who have more expertise in various subjects wonder “why is this guy getting to review a hot new kit for free and not me?”

Many feel they do not have the writing skills to write reviews (have you seen some of the posts folks write, they border on illiterate). A well written substandard review is more likely to get printed than an expert review written by Mr. Can’t Spell who thinks grammar is what Yankees call their grandmothers.

Likewise, I have seen hot new kits passed off to modelers who know so little about the actual vehicle that the review seems like a waste of electrons.

I’ve even been in rather inane heated arguement with a person asking me to review an item that I politely turned him down. It was a 1/72 scale Tiger or Panther resin engine set. I tried to tell the person that 1, I didn’t have the kit that the item would be used for (no way to see if it fit), and 2, that I had no personal knowledge of the subject nor did I have any references that I could even base an opinion on.

After he tore into me (accused me of having an agenda against him and called me some choice names), I mentioned the above reasons for declining again and basically told him that other than giving an opinion that it looked like an engine to me and commenting on the quality of the casting, I would have no other useful information to provide in a review. I told him I wouldn’t know the difference between a Tiger, Panther, Panzer IV, or King Tiger engine or if any of them were even the same or all different.

Embarrassed, he slinked off and I’ve not heard from him in years.

14

i myself have several kits in my stash that don’t meet the approval of some die hard rivet counters and haven’t built them for fear of the "oh thats the wrong tail shape "or “the glacias plate on that version has 14 button rivets not twelve bolts” and of course we all know that the internet never lies and the pictures posted of historical subjects are the absolute truth and the particular varient shown was the one that went into production with thousands rolling off the lines.face it( I MEAN NO DISRESPECT FOR THOSE FOLKS)unless you ate, slept, or otherwise were intamate with that particular subject , ya don’t have a leg to stand on.personally i’m amazed at the technology this hobby has come to and simply overwhelmed with the choices that are now available,i look forward to all the stuff to come and if its a kit with issues i’ll wait for someone to produce a better kit. long story short joe public eyeballing the contest table at the LHS isn’t going to care or possibly know the difference,if it makes you happy build it,if it’s wrong fix it,if ya can’t fix it live with it,if ya can’t live with it leave it in the box and let thoseof us who aren’t concerned with absolute accuracy enjoy the hobby for what it is. a great way to spend the afternoon dreaming about activities we couldn’t take part in(jet fighter pilot,racing across the dessert in a 60 ton behemoth). KUDOS to the companys and engineers involved with just simply making 500+ pieces fit together close enough for someone to bellyache that there is a 1/1600th gap in a tough spot to sand. we’re modelers its what we do.

15

I’ve often used this analogy, but the level of detail a person is willing to accept is often like the guys who take care of their lawns. You may like to keep it cut, adding those cross stripes with perfectly manicure edging, etc. Your next door neighbor may just cut as quickly as possible, rarely edges his sidewalks and doesn’t weedwhack along his chain link fence. Neither one of you is cutting your grass wrong, you just like to do it to different degrees.

16

Good example. At the end of the day, isn’t the opinion of the purchaser/builder the most important any way?

17

I actually like in box reviews because they tend not to get bogged down in subjective details (one reviewers minor clean up is anothers gallons of putty needed). They tend to be short and to the point, this kit offers 3 decal options and can be built as an early or late model xyz. Parts are crisp and well molded, test fitting of major parts appears to be good overall. It includes a moderately detailed interior and a pair of nicely detailed radial engines.

That is really about all I need from a review.

18

i think part of it may also be attitude of the person(s) complaining about the model

if a person states as simple facts they see them

ie this is not shaped right or this part is too big etc… rather than the all out attack attitude (look another disaster from x co nothing fits etc)

every kit has neg side but the attitude of the commenter in my mind has a lot to do with how the post goes

as some of you me remember the submarine issue of early 2009

19

99% of the folks that have lived with 'em probably wouldn’t notice… For example, crew chiefs don’t rivet-count, they just look for empty rivet holes… Pilots don’t even look for that much… They don’t care if an intake’s shaped wrong, just that it ain’t blocked and nothing’s living in there… They don’t care if the wings have the wrong slats, they just care that there’s two wings…

The other 1% are modelers and they pull out the personal photos, & the handbook copy they stole, and just fix the kit problem, they don’t b*tch about it…

20

This might be like cuss’in in church but, I want a model to be as accurate as the next person but that is not why I build them. I enjoy this hobby because of where my mind goes while I am at the bench, totally concentrating on what I am building. Memories of air shows and who I attended them with, aircraft that I have always loved or maybe movies that I have seen all come to mind. So it is not just the depiction of an aircraft, it is the journey I take to get there.