Making Furled Sails...

Well, my first attempt to install homemade furled sails is complete. I’m actually not very impressed with my work.

JTilley, I can absolutely understand the reasoning for preassembling masts, yards, and rigging as much as possible OFF the model! I now realize that following the order of the inlcluded instruction sheet is a dangerous game! As I learn more and begin to feel more comfortable in my abilities, I plan to totally deconstruct the instructions and rewrite them in a logical fashion… :slight_smile:

As far as the sails go, I feel a big part of my problem is that I got impatient, and instead of abandoning the trial when I saw things going south, I persevered. They don’t look BAD bad (in my opinion), but in comparison with the rest of the ship, and my success with other areas of it, they are lacking. Just a little too uneven, and the texture doesn’t seem right. I think for the next furled sail attempt, I’ll try the Silkspan material, and also do more of the installation with the masts OFF the kit, with much less obstruction! Retrospective!

Also, the yards are up. I know, I know, it’s heresy. Just out of curiosity, when altering the yard placement of a kit which is intended for them to be raised, how does one actually attach them to a lower part of the mast? Is it a matter of modifying parts, adding notches and tabs, etc.?

My preferred method for sharing pics on Finescale is to just place a link to my facebook album, which is public. If anyone reading this has a facebook account, feel free to visit this page to see pics of the Vasa build…the last 5 pictures are of some of the new sails…I’d love any feedback, but I already know some of what I’m trying next time! Be warned- the color scheme is not authentic! haha

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/media/set/?set=a.10150652386816312.389965.582946311&type=1

David

The trick of rigging the yards before attaching them to the mast was first made known to me in the Revell 1/96 Constitution.

David you’ve come on strong and avid. Get that kit. It sets the bar in several ways. The design of the kit trumped all kinds of nonsense that came before and after, like yards molded to masts and sails molded to yards.

Seems obvious now but it wasn’t then.

If I were modeling Wasa I would probably choose to not include sails at all.

My thinking is to make her in the image of her designers.

If under sail, I would guess she was under main sail only as Stockholm Harbor and her build site are very confined. In fact so much so, that I wonder that she wasn’t being what the British quaintly called being “warped” out.

In other words, it’s pretty unlikely that the Captain would have either set all of his sails or even rigged them for the procession out of the harbor.

OK I Admit. I don’t like sails on ship models.

Because sails need crews. Crews need an era. An era speaks to weathering.

In fact thinking about it a little bit more, I propose the question.

Did the designer of the Revell 1/96 Constitution create a wooden ship model in plastic?

I say yes.

Certainly not the hull or the decks but I’d submit that the rigging and the sailing set up was a sincere attempt to give the modeler a complete experience in a major ship project, in simple fashion.

I’ve been on the fence about the Big Connie since I first decided to try out ship modeling. Not to say it’s been a long time (only a few months, rather!), but I was looking at it before I bought my first kit, the BHR. And she’s been on my wish list ever since. I’ve read multiple reviews/threads about the kit, and checked out a couple build reviews…and from what I’ve gathered, the Revell 1/96 Constitution is considered by many to be one of the best kits ever. And it seems like a good way for a ship modeler to test his mettle. Almost like “If you’re going to take it seriously, see how you like this!” Plus, that is one BIG kit. It would certainly be an impressive peice. Amazon has it for about 60 bucks right now, but the price fluctuates, and I’ve been keeping an eye on it…

Some people have said the Connie kit is so old, that many parts could be warped, and that a lot of time must be spent clearing the parts of flash…I despise flash. Other people have said their parts were in great shape. It seems like a crap-shoot when opening the box, to find out whether you got a good manufacturing run, or a dog. What was the condition of your Connie? Did you have to make many modifications/repairs?

The only other concerns I have about building it are 1) the cost of a display case…it’s hard to believe how much a display case costs…I couldn’t find anything for less than 300-400 dollars! Sheesh! and 2) I’ve heard a lot about customization and replacing parts with scratchbuilt/aftermarket parts…does the Connie work well “out of the box?”…or is it necessary to buy new blocks and eyes, and make masts out of real wood? I just keep going back to whether or not I’m ready, you know??

Bottom line is this: I will build the 1/96 Revell Constitution, it’s just a matter of time. Your message of encouragement helped push me in the right direction…I just need to get it in my stash, and that’s the first step!

My Golden Hind should arrive today! And I figure I’ve got about a week or so left with the Wasa…and then of course, there’s that Zvezda Swan I’ve been hearing about…don’t get me started on that! I REALLY like the style of the Galleons, if I’m using the term correctly…that’s why I dig the Wasa, the Hind, and that Black Swan so much…but I do want to build a good-sized, good quality kit…

I also have the little (1/196) Revell Constitution in my closet, but I’m not very interested in it… I only bought it because it was a good deal, and I felt like I might want to experiment with it someday…you know, make new parts, test out some weathering/washes on it…maybe even try setting vacuum formed sails…even though I also have reservations about sails on a kit…

So many ships…where to go next??

Thanks!

I’m not on Facebook (and, in view of the experiences my kids have had with it, I don’t particularly want to be), so I’m afraid I can’t see the photos David posted. Regarding the shifting of yard positions - it all depends on how accurate and detailed you want the finished model to be. In a real seventeenth-century ship, the yards would be fastened to the masts by gadgets called parrals (or parrels). A parral is a pretty simple apparatus consisting of ropes, ribs, and trucks (wood rollers) that lets the yard swing around the mast and slide up and down it. My recollection is that the old Airfix Wasa has decent representations of the parrals mollded in with the masts; I have no idea about the Revell one. Making a set of parrals to scale isn’t particularly difficult (the aforementioned book by Dr. Anderson shows just how to do it), but it gets trickier as the scale gets smaller.

A simplified alternative is to pin the yard to the mast in the right place with a piece of fine wire. (You’ve got a set of small drill bits and a pin vise - right?) Add a drop of CA adhesive, and the result will look fine except at very close range.

I’ll take the liberty to offer an opinion that differs from that of several Forum friends. I don’t recommend the big Revell Constitution to newcomers. I really like the kit, but to do even a reasonable “out of the box” job on it takes a huge amount of time. I’ve never heard of anybody doing it in much less than a year. Newcomers improve fast; by the time you get to the mizzen mast you’ll think the work you did on the foremast isn’t good enough. That’s one big reason why (as I learned firsthand when I was working my way through grad school in a hobby shop) so few of the big, plastic sailing ship kits ever get finished.

I’ve been preaching for years that the best way to get started in sailing ship modeling is with relatively small ships in relatively large scales. Unfortunately few such plastic kits are available at the moment. The Revell Golden Hind (one of my all-time favorites) isn’t bad for that purpose. Neither is the old Revell yacht America - if you can find one. An excellent kit that is currently on the market is the Revell Viking ship - a beautiful representation of the real Gokstad ship. Another, if you aren’t too bothered by the fact that it’s based on now-outdated research, is the Revell Santa Maria.

Many years ago, Pyro made a series of really nice, basic ship kits that were, I think, just about ideal for newcomers: the revenue cutter Roger B. Taney (AKA “Independence War Schooner”), the fishing schooner Gertrude L. Thebaud (AKA “American Cup Racer”), and the revenue cutter Harriet Lane (AKA “Civil War Blockade Runner”). For a long time they were sold under the Lifelike label, and most recently by Lindberg. They can still be found on hobby shop shelves, at modelers’ conventions, and on E-bay. Any of those kits, with the help of a good book or two, can be turned into a fine model of a handsome, important ship in a few weeks. In the process, the modeler will learn about the basics of sailing ship construction and rigging, develop the necessary skills - so his next model will be better. To my mind, that makes a lot more sense than shelling out a big wad on a big kit, starting it, getting discouraged at the amount of repetition, getting frustrated when cannon number 50 looks so much better than cannon number 1, and finally sticking the whole thing on a closet shelf to be forgotten about - and never trying a sailing ship again.

Those are personal opinions, with which anybody is, of course, free to disagree. But I will say that I’ve never known anybody to regret starting with one of those kits - and I know the vast majority of the big Constitution, Cutty Sark, Victory, and Soleil Royal kits I sold never got built.

John I believe the Lindbergh Constellation can be a good kit for those learning to rig sailing ships.

Thanks for the insight, JTilley.

I have back-and-forthed about the 96 constitution numerous times, and part of me wants to meet the challenge of it, while part of me knows I need to continue improving my skills and, in large part, my patience. I can see how the repetition of building so many cannons could be frustrating, especially when, as you said, by the time I got halfway done, I would be proficient and would probably want to go back and re-do the first half! I don’t want to burn myself out, and I probably should wait until I feel like I’m really good at building ships before I do something ambitious. here’s my dilemma: I want each ship I build to be better, “cooler”, more impressive, and more of a challenge than the previous one. I’m nearing completion of the Vasa (more on that in a minute), and I’m having difficulty finding a subject that meets the aforementioned criteria. I recieved my Original Release Revell Golden Hind yesterday, and after breaking open the cellophane, and examining the kit, I was a bit disappointed. First off, it’s pretty small. Not a big deal, but I expected it to be a little more substantial (truthfully, I hoped to find a little extra elbow room for the running rigging…still wondering how anyone can get all their lines attached to the tiny belaying pins on some of these smaller-scale ships!). Also, many of the parts are warped, and very flash-y, and the detail that you can tell SHOULD have been there seemed to be dulled somewhat. Keeping in mind that I’m now working on a kit that was only released last year, and has, In my opinion, incredibly crisp detail and sharp lines…the GH just feels a little flat. One thing to note: The little tin tube of glue that was packaged with the kit is still intact, and also seems to be still liquid inside! Not that I’m going to use it, but I thought it was neat. I expected it to be dried out. I’ll keep it as a novelty. :slight_smile: So, all that being said, I really hope the Golden Hind will end up looking as sweet as I want it to, but I’m slightly dubious.

Anyhow, it’s going to be my next build, and I’ll do my best to make it shine! I like the old-fashioned instructions…they actually describe the steps of assembly in paragraphs, and it’s fun to look over the diagrams, although I’ve learned to take the order of assembly as suggestions, and now find myself looking for ways to improve the steps, and identify ways to make the build more efficient, and easier (pre-rigging masts, for example)…I also like the figures…in some ways, they are the best feature of the kit! I need to learn to straighten warped parts, and the limited flash removel I’ve dealt with in the past has been easy to remove, many times after painting I would simply scrape it off and touch up with paint…but with this kit, I think I will have to remove most of the parts from their sprues, clean them up, and then paint them. I generally like to leave many parts on their sprues when I break out the airbrush. Sorry, rambling again!

I like the idea of drilling the yards and masts out and inserting a piece of wire to make them lowered…perfect solution! And yes, I bought a pin vise set when I started the Wasa. Needed it to drill out the dimples on the channel for the deadeyes…since I removed the Shroud-net to make thread shrouds, the deadeyes needed somwhere to fit into to hold them up, so I drilled each divot out to fit the feet of the deadeyes…

I’d really like to share my pics with any interested persons here, I could use some sounding-off on my techniques, plus it would be nice to have some idea of how I’m doing! I see a lot of the shortcomings of my work, but maybe that’s just my nature…I’ll see if I can find a way to post stuff up here directly…there must be a thread describing how to do it?

P.S. I- like the look of the Viking Ship from Revell…maybe I should put that in my wish list.

Thanks again, John Tilley, and everybody else! I know many of you have been answering the same questions to new guys for a long time… your patience, advice, and knowledge is very valuable and much appreciated.

David

Alright! I figured out how to share some pics !

This one’s from when I was still doing standing rigging…

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/574665_10150736900746312_582946311_9646900_1244751229_n:550:0]

Here’s the hull after the basecoat and some flat red uppers…

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/532724_10150671997161312_582946311_9448760_370568777_n:550:0]

Here’s the deck, pre-rigging…

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/522804_10150721105796312_582946311_9605419_87856635_n:550:0]

And, my attempt at furled sails…

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/521386_10150824964411312_582946311_9717626_1472412929_n:550:0]

I suppose I could put a link to the Flickr page, if anyone just wants to see them all…I just grabbed a handful of pics from my Facebook account and loaded them here…Keep in mind, this is only my second ship :slight_smile:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8397735@N07/sets/72157629699156080/

What I see there while a good attempt is lacking something.

if you can remove the sails you can try again. For one thing the line that bind up furled sails is actually the same lines that the crew would use to tack the sails to the belaying pins when the sail is unfurled . I do believe that facial tissue is best used as it is softer than packing tissue and once folded and the lines wrapped around it and the yard would yield a more natural “fabric” sag and then you can use the diluted white glue wash to set the tissue so it can hold its shape.

in fact here is a site I found that shows people how to do furled sails on model ships.

http://modelshipwrightsdatabase.com/Articles/17FurledSails.htm

Thanks, Mikey!

That does help a lot!

Seems like there’s so much work that can (and should) be completed OFF the model…my next kit is going to progress so much differently than this one!

I remembered another kit that, I think, would be a great first sailing ship project: the 1/72 Hanseatic Cog, released by Zvezda and also sold by Revell Germany. It isn’t on the current Revell list, but I suspect it woudn’t be hard to track down. Here’s a quite recent article about it: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/sail/HanseKogge-72-jl/index.htm .

I haven’t got one, but on the basis of reviews and photos it looks like an ideal newcomer’s project: optional underwater hull, one mast, one sail, and enough complexity and variety in the rigging to be interesting and instructive - without being overwhelming. Add some of Zvezda’s medieval people and you’d have a pretty spectacular model, after a few weeks of spare-time work.

I have trouble recommending any three-masted, full-rigged ship to newcomers. And rigging them to scale gets harder as the scale gets smaller.

John I wouldn’t exactly say that the Lindberg Constellation kit is “fully” rigged per say. But they only have you put on very minimal standing rigging and that is with kit supplied rigging thread that is several scale sizes to large and would be better off being used to make anchor rope for the anchors. And there is no running rigging or even mast stay lines I had to add those and the running rigging I added is at a minimum level due to the sails being molded to the yards.

Hi all-

I’m pretty excited to have finished my second ship, the Revell Vasa, including my first attempt at furling tissue into sails…I wanted to post a couple of pictures here, for anyone who may be interested:

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[View:/themes/fsm/utility/IMG_0210:550:0]

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[View:/themes/fsm/utility/DSCF8481:550:0]

If you look really closely, you may notice that I actually used the molded shroud/ratline on the Bowsprit mast…that was before I decided to run my own shrouds…and I never got back to it and replaced the plastic with thread…I’m sure I’ll eventually clip them off and run a few lines on there, but for now, I’m not too worried about it…I think it looks pretty swell!

Thanks for all the advice and encouragement! Next is my Zvezda Black Swan, a more ambitious project…

:slight_smile:

I gotta tell you , based on that picture you did okay.I was going to suggest you pick up the latest "SHIPS IN SCALE " mag. It,s marketed by the fine folks at KALMBACH and it has an article on that subject.That,s the latest issue.The PUBLISHER is SEAWAYS in NIWOT , COLORADO ? TANKER-builder

Thanks, Tankerbuilder!

I’ll see if I can find that issue…

David

Nice job David [Y]

Thanks, 2whl! It really was a (get it? WAS A?) lot of fun…and I learned a lot from the build, thanks to the Hands-On experience, and with help from some of the members here…

I’m impressed!

Bill

Thanks, Bill! It means a lot…

I’m starting in on the Zvezda 1/72 Black Swan already…it’s going to be more of a challenge, but I’ve learned so much already, I feel I’m up for it…we’ll see how it goes! I got mine at about the same time as another new ship modeler on here, and he’s got a build thread going, and we’re going to compare notes and stuff while we each progress…it’s neat!

David