I am building a M4 Sherman and was wondering what king of stowage would be on it in Normandy and what kind of weathering it would have. Thanks![;)]
David
Try to get any of the Steve Zaloga books by Concord:
“DDay Tank Battles”
“US Tank Battles in France”
“Sherman at War Parts 1 & 2”
David Fletcher also has (by Concord) “British Tanks in Normandy Pt 1, France & Belgium”
Basically the crew would have stowed tarps and bedrolls. Weathering? It was very dusty in June.
just about anything goes! do a web image search, you’ll see! I haven’t seen a photo that includes the kitchen sink yet, but I’m sure there’s one out there!
Seriously, help yourself out, learn how to use google or yahoo search. The best advice you’ll get is the stuff you give yourself! Some of these guys are’nt as big an expert as they might think!
IYAAYAS is right about “almost anything goes” as far as the scrounging mentality of crews in the field. Placement, however, is a huge affair as far as accuracy goes IMHO. Crews would not place items thatcould possibly obscure lines of vision or the operation of its weapons. I recently saw a Sherman model with all sorts of gear atop the turret – that would block the commander from 360 vision if he were buttoned up. ALso, consider how much a tank would jar and rock in while moving. Everything would be tied down or lost. Also avoid stuff on the side hulls as it gets easily torn off. And omit the ever-present modellers’ chain. Extremely overdone. Wouldnt be useful for a tank crew anyways.
HTH
again, check your references…items like logs, spare tracklinks, scrap iron, and chicken wire were placed on the side of the tanks. Also items on the front of tanks were often not secured with rope, chains etc. there are many pictures to support my input!
More often than not a model is ruined by placing out-of-scale rope holding down items that don’t need to be secured. I cannot stress this enough, referencing pictures that you find during a search is half the fun of modeling. As you see from the input above, the advice you recieve from input in forums is often misleading…
Although I agree that doing your homework is vital, I believe that there are some folks on here that know their Shermans, and in my opinion T26E4 is one of them.
IYAAYAS, your post reads more like you have a bone to pick, less like healthy debate.
SteveM
Sorry for my dastardly lies about this. I guess my ill motives at deceiving the Sherman modelling world has been uncovered. You got me IYAAYAS.
IYAAYAS does have a point about that some tanks did mount protective stuff on the hull sides. He’s correct. To clarify, what I meant to say is that you don’t often see knapsacks or bedrolls off the hull sides. I’ve seen modellers to this and it seems pretty absent in photos I’ve seen. Obviously there are exceptions. Also IYAAYAS is right in that some early 57 degree hulls do seem to just have some stuff just pile on there. And a mis-sized rope that could keep the QE2 in dock holding onto some bedrolls is just as bad. Given.
David: since you mention Normandy however, know that most photos I’ve seen show that the tank crews didn’t get to the wholesale uparmoring on the glacis or hull sides at that stage. They were still new to the continent and unbloodied. an exception were British and Cdn tanks who early on, festooned their tanks w/extra tracks for added protection.
Just use your judgement. Imagine if you were in a heaving and rolling tank. Where would you store your gear and how would you do it? I think common sense is the best policy. Sure very odd things were seen but I try not to give my models’ viewers the first impression of “that’s strange…”
Like I said in my initial post, the list of Concord books are some of my favorite (and relatively easy to obtain) sources for wartime Sherman images. David, my hope is that these do become YOUR references. I’ve really enjoyed them and one can really hone their “Sherman eye” scouring through the many good pictures contained therein.
HTH (honestly)
Roy Chow
(obviously one of the self deluded big experts)
Thank you all for the insight. I checked some photos and found that some tanks had everthing tied down but others didn’t. Thanks![:D]
David
I agree with Steve here. I don’t need references, I was a tanker, and Mr. Chow is absolutely right. Sure, there were things hanging off the sides of Shermans, but I guarantee you, it was all expendable. No tanker in his right mind would put something he really needs outside the sponsons to be ripped off the tank when busting through the bush.
IYAAYS…you’re opinions are appreciated only if they are conveyed with respect. We all agree to disagree, but the key is to do it the right way. The kind of attitude that you are projecting is not how we do it around here. You need to chill out.
If you read the gentleman’s first post (which btw he has edited) he stated that you would NEVER see anything hanging over the edge, and that items were ALWAYS tied down with rope. He was wrong…I corrected him.
[(-D]…can’t we all just get along…?
Sorry Iyaayas: I edited my 2nd post by only switching the following line: “atop the vision – that would block the commander from 360 vision” with “atop the turret – that would block the commander from 360 vision”. That’s the only editing I did.
Here’s what I originally wrote “Everything would be tied down or lost.” and it’s still up there. I did overstate the “everything” being tied down idea which I humbly accepted as an overstatement when you pointed it out. I even agreed with your correction. Thank you for that. Why would I go back and edit my original misstatement only to acknowledge it in the subsequent reply?
"Also avoid stuff on the side hulls as it gets easily torn off. " This is all that I said about hull stowage. Again, your corrective allowed me to clarify this broad statement as well. You are 100% correct about the fact that some Allied tanks did indeed carry extra armor and other sundry items (which I acknowledged in my follow up post). I was able to clarify saying that IMHO, knapsacks and bedrolls would likely not be stowed there. I stand by that statement and it’s only my opinion to assist David (which was what I thought was the whole point of this thread).
However, I will try to be mindful of stating absolutes. You’re correct that it’s likely to only get me in trouble.
Frankly, nearly 100% of your comments about my advice to David I agree with other than your antagonistic nature and name-calling. No worries though. Everything under the bridge.
What’s got me stuck is trying to get some motivation to paint some ongoing models and meeting some deadlines for some commission builds and two magazine articles. That’s frustration!
Friends now, OK? Hope all your modelling projects go smoothly!
Well, I can show what not to do. T26E4 gave me some very good advice, as well as some other people. Unfortuneatly I am a computer dummy, so I can’t copy the thread here. On Dec 10 2006 I posted my Sherman on the Forums, and the pointers that were given to me I will never forget.