I’m trying to find a colour photogragh or drawing of what the tail of the following RF-4Cs would of looked like. Especially interested in the ones from the 12th TRS which was part of the 460th Tactical Reconnaissance Wing, at Tan Son Nhut AB. Aircraft is/was 67-0448 “Carolina Kangaroo”. I know it carried AC and AF=448 on the tail but did 12th TRS aircraft have any fin flashes on top of the tail?
I was stationed at Tan Son Nhut AB from June '67-'68 and was with the 12 TRS. I remember that aircraft. It was one of two which was allowed to have a name. Our unit carried no special badges, only the AC on the tail and red fin caps.
That aircraft was a replacement aircraft sent to us after the '68 TET offensive. We lost several aircraft during the attack. We had '64 and '65 models and picked up some '67 models direct from the factory to replace our losses.
The serial number as displayed on the tail was AF 70 in small black numbers and 448 in large white numbers. The fin cap was pained red and I am pretty sure that aircraft had the horz stab tips also painted red. Other than the name on the aircraft all other markings were standard. Let me know if you need any other additional information. And welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the response and welcome. Very kind of you.
Can you confirm at that time the code was AF70 and not AF67? I am in email contact with the pilot at the time and he seems to recall AF67. I have seen a picture with this aicraft with the AF70 code later in it’s life. From what info I have been given, it may have been both. Your confirmation would be appreciated. Thanks also for the info in relation to the fin cap & horz stab colour.
I know from talking to Alan that the aircraft was brand new and had all the factory fresh stencil data.
Some other info I am after is what was the recon package under the nose? The hasegawa kit has two options. A flat and a prism shaped option. I can send pics if you require calification.
Up until now have just been viewing post on these forums, saw your comments, I too was stationed at Tan Son Nhut AB 68 to 69. Was assigned to 7th AF HQ DIT.
Want to get back into modeling and have been looking forward to a very rewarding hobby
Are you talking about the fiscal year designator for 67-0448? The 67 stands for the fiscal year that Congress approved the funds to buy equipment for the AF. 67-0448 was bought with 1967 fundswith the fiscal year running from Oct. 1, 1966 to Sept. 30, 1967. According to Joe Baugher’s website, 67-0448 went to Davis-Monthan AMARC in 1991 and is still there as of 2008. This plane could not have a FY designator of 70 as this belongs to a C-5A, 70-0448. The AF still uses the FY designator for all types of equipment, such as bulldozers and humvee’s.
Here is how someone on ARC explained the differences:
“The airplane’s official serial number is 67-0448. Many depots and unit level paint shops interpreted the T.O. in different ways. Technically, it’s always been the case that the first two of the serial (the Fiscal Year {FY} in which the airplane is procured) goes at the front. In some interpretations though, they took it to mean that you’re supposed to make the last three large characters and the next two (reading from right to left) the smaller characters. Thus, 67-0440 can become 70-440. The correct way to display it would have been AF 67 448, leaving the “0” out entirely. It would work the same way if (this is a made up example) the serial were 75-2905. It should read AF 75 905, but it could be done as AF 52-905 incorrectly. This mistake was much more commonly seen in the early days of the TAC style serial number presentation starting in about 1966. By the late 1970s it was almost never seen any longer. Everybody had finally gotten the correct interpretation on how it was to be presented. Prior to the TAC style serial presentation (when camo was first introduced in 1965), the tail would have had small (4” typically) black characters that said “USAF” above and (in this case) “70448” below. It was, and remains common for other commands besides TAC/ACC to use the last digit of the FY (FY67 in this case) plus the last four digits of the serial, or in the case of an extra long serial, just the last five digits, regardless of what other numbers are in the serial. So, in the days of SAC, RC-135C 64-14845 had simply “14845” on the tail. RC-135D 60-0362 had “00362”, and KC-135A 55-3139 had “53139”."
I’m sure it had “AF67” during the war and then went to 70 in the 70s and then back to 67 later.
Actually each command did their serial numbers different. Prior to camo style paint the serial number on the tail would read 70448. When aircraft were being painted in camo, TAC and USAFE would put the full year and last three of the serial number which would then read AF 67-448. PACAF did it their own way and used the last year and full serial number which would read AF 70-448. An example, my F-4D serial number 66-8711 in Thailand was numbered AF 68-711. After it went to Germany it became AF 66-711. My RF-4C at Tan Son Nhut came from Shaw AFB, SC and had tail number AF 65-818. It was not repainted to the PACAF style tail number. The only problem is there is no RF-4C listed with that serial number. Only a 1964 model had the last three numbers. It should have read AF 64-818 or in PACAF as 40-818. No wonder why historians get so confused at times.
When 67-448 arrived in Nam, it had only USAF 67448 in small tan numbers painted on the tail. Our unit painted the AC tail code and serial number as AF 70-448. That was how PACAF did it and continued to do it until 1980. The jet had the serial number and kept that serial number as long as it was assigned to PACAF.
The correct one is W16. That one is the older flat panel used. W17 came out in later block numbers. I don’t have my reference book available so I can’t tell you which serial numbers had the newer rounded panel. Use W16 as that is the correct one.
Happy modeling and post pictures when you start the build.
