Iwata Airbrush (HP-C Plus vs HP-CS)

Hi All,

Fist, I would like to introduce (since it’s my first post) I’m a moderate modeller for few years now (mainly cars) and I’m the owner of the ScaleWiki web site (maybe some of you will know it) and usually know my stuff.

Anyway, I have read a lot of post on this forum and it’s quite funny to see the badger vs iwata war :smiley:

I currently have a Badger Anthem 155 for over a year and I was well pleased with it (I had an Aztek before…) But now, I need to go for something a bit more precise and that give me smaller lines. I’m looking at the HP-CS, which look to be very popular here, but the “new” HP-C Plus is only few buck more, and offer preset hand and Teflon seal. My budget is 120-160$us.

I mainly use Testor, Model Master and Humbrol enamel, Tamiya Synthetic Acrylic, Alclad and Model Master metalizer Lacquer. I sometime use acrylic paint too. I’m doing mostly car model, but nearly never paint the body with airbrush. I also paint small to medium figurine which is now why I need more control. I need gravity feed since I need to work quite close the the object, and hi air pressure of syphon make over spray hard to control. Most people say the 0.3mm needle of the HP-C Plus is too small for modeling paint, but I can’t imagine how much 0.3mm would be worst than 0.35mm.

So please, no Iwata / badger war (it was fun the first 40 post I have read here)

Thanks for your comments

First…

[#welcome] to the forums! Pull up a keyboard and stay a while.

Second…

I’ve seen your website. I have to spend more time there!

Third…

Badger, badger, badger (MikeV is out of town this week, and it needed to be said!)

I own a couple of Badgers and have little experience with the Iwatas. All I can say is they sure are expensive. Which is why I have so little experience!

The difference between .3 and .35 seems small but it is a tad over 16% which is actually a fairly large difference. Most of the fine needle ABs are designed to spray ink, not pigmented paints. I would go with the larger needle to save some problems painting.

I haven’t left yet. I am on a recon mission of this site so be good. [;)]

Vric,

If you are dead set on an Iwata I would get the HP-CS of the two you mentioned.
If you are open to other airbrushes why not get a Badger 100LG and you can use the hose you have now? The 100 LG is just as good as the one’s you mentioned and has better customer service if you need help. Just a thought.

Mike

Whoops! Heh heh, just trying on the shoes, MikeV, nothing to see here, move along…[:D]

[#welcome] to FSM Vric, I hope you enjoy your time here.

Like you I used to own an Aztek until it imploded and I was forced to find a replacement so I know where you’re coming from. I chose the HP-CS from Iwata as my ab and have been extremely happy with it ever since, although I did pick up a .5mm needle/nozzle combo for broad coverage spraying which has been very useful. As far as your question goes if I was buying today I would probably go for the new HP-C plus for fine detail work and keep your Badger Anthem 155 for general purpose spraying. I think I have seen it for about $159 US on art.

As a by the by, I have sprayed Gunze Acrylics, Model Master and Humbrol enamels, Tamiya Acrylics, Alclad and Model Master metalizer Lacquer and Vallejo Acrylics through my HP-CS without any problems at all.

Cheers

Hi

Thanks for the reply guys.

My only concern is if I get the preset handle for the HP-CS, it will come at the same price as the HP-C Plus airbrush, which is supposed to be a higher end airbrush.

Most people say get the HP-CS because of his 0.35 needle and they never had problem with it. But those really few people that have the HP-C Plus are also very happy with it and don’t have problem. Everyone say their airbrush is the best, and when you can’t see them in real like me (I have to order online) it’s hard to make the good choice. I don’t want to buy/try/sell :smiley:

The HP-C Plus have: Preset Handle, better handling and Teflon Needle, which HP-CS don’t have. My only concern is the pain usability with the HP-C Plus, which some people (most of the time without the airbrush) say it won’t work correctly with hobby paint.

Thanks for your help.

Greetings,

I have two Iwata’s (HP-C and CS) a Peak C-5 and a Harder & Steenbeck Evolution 2 in 1. The Iwata’s are very nice airbrushes but have expensive replacement parts. The Peak, available from Bearair, is ideally suited for someone who wants an Iwata but doesn’t have the money. The Peak is made in the same factory that makes Iwata. When compared to my HP-C, it is identical except for the Peak name on the side. All the parts from the Peak are interchangable with both my Iwata’s. The Peak came with a pre-set handle which neither of my Iwata’s had. I can put the pre-set from the Peak on both the C and CS.

I had heard much praise about the Harder & Steenbeck Evolution so I took some money out of my stash and bought one from Obeeliks. The Evolution is about the same money as the Iwata C including shipping from Belgium. After one spraying session with the Evolution, it became my favorite. I like the engineering and it feels really balanced in my hand. It also sprays fantastic. I also like the fact that you can remove the needle from the front of the Evolution. It came with two different needle sizes and color cups and has solvent proof seals.

The customer service from Obeeliks is great and it came shipped to my door in Illinois in about 3/4 days. Didn’t want to confuse the issue but this was just my $.02 and hoped you could benefit from my experience.

Chuck B.

hey, just to answer to the topic, since you are using enamels and all, according to most of the recommendations I read so far a slight medium sized nozzle will be better. I talked to my local custom automotive paintshop guys, and their detail painting airbrush choice was the eclipse CS, same as from the bunch of automotive airbrushing books I read at Barns n Nobles. but then again this is still slightly different from painting bikes. As for the HP-C, Alex Ross (if any remembers the drawn arts in the beginning of the Spider 2 movie, those were his!) uses one to touch up and finish all his comic drawings n illustrations, which is acrylics and all.

I personally have sprayed well thinned model master enamel through my Tamiya SuperFine brush for warhammer 40K figures (1/48) just recently and it had done a good job at it, so I don’t see why the smaller nozzle on the HP-C wouldn’t handle the paint, as the Tamiya SF brush has a claimed 0.2mm nozzle which I just compare the needle taper to my friend’s new HP-BH airbrush and they were just about the same. the HP-B from iwata uses a finer nozzle than the HP-C, so yeah you get the point.

Since you want fine control, the preset handle is a helpful feature. The one on the Tamiya brush helped me a lot with the warhammer guys but then again I masked them for painting anyways. From Badger’s pictures the 100LG has a little screw in front of the trigger. I’d assume that is to be used as a preset for the needle stop as well. the 100SG I have right now doesn’t have the lil feature available to it, though I am still doing smaller details pretty well with the 100SG so far. the 100LG with fine tip is supposed to be at my door tomorrow morning according to dixieart.com, so I will let you know about it if you think this can be used as a supplementary choice to your selections since it’s like half the price. as for the rest about 100LG, mikeV, fill in the blanks! = P

edited:

as for the war… I started a quite neutral thread (at least I thought it was) just last week I think and it kinda escalated, so I threw in the towel. the opinion to that, gather as much info from both sides as possible, look at your budget, pick one and stick to what you want then change later if you think you want to dump in more money to try new things. Funny how we both went from aztek to 155 anthemns…

Thanks for the reply.

I think the HP-CS might be better for paints I use. But like I said, what I hate is once I add the preset cutaway handle to the HP-CS, it come to the same price as the HP-C Plus, which might be a better all around airbrush.

As for my airbrush History, I started with an Aztek Double action (something like A370) It died in one year after I tried to use lacquer paint on those cheap plastic nozzle. Then I looked for the Badger Anthem, which at 60$ sounded a good value (and it was) Now I have bigger budget and want better airbrush :smiley:

Vric, just came across your post here. Man, I am in the same boat. I am torn beteen the 2 ab’s. Looking at the date of your post I am curious as to which ab you went with. I was gonna do the same, get the CS and and the preset handle. Look forward to hearing about it.

Cheers.

I have an HP-C and a HP-CR. The soultion is simple. HP-C plus for your case. You have the Badger for most of your larger coverages and the .3mm nozzle of the HP-C plus for fine line work. If you did not have another airbrush I would say get the HP-CS because it might be a slightly better all purpose airbrush than the HP-C plus. Greg

O.k., I’ve already commented on another thread, but I’ll do this again. Like I’ve said before, there’s very few practical/effective reviews out there on these airbrushes from a modeller’s perspective, and this can be VERY frustrating.

Anyway, I have multiple Iwata brushes (CH, CS, BH, SB,CMB), multiple badgers (100lg, 175 I still have) and a paasche H (which still is a fav on mine for what it does.). Use the silentaire-20 and tend to airbrush even when I don’t have to. I spray mainly acryllics, inks and other water based medias, but have experience with enamels and laquer based media.

Interesting note on peaks, tamiya: they are reportedly made in the same factory (per coast AB), but will have some slightly different parts- a more tapered nozzle, etc.- just enough to make them a bit different. However, a lot of the stuff is interchangeble. Probably too much so: bearair lost their connections with iwata a while back, and it was thought to be because they wouldn’t bow to pressure to stop carrying the peak AB. No experience with them, but they likely perform about the same.

Now, to the brushes:

The CS vs. C/C+/CH comparison. The CS has a grosser spray pattern than the others. I believe the barrel is slightly longer, which, IIRC tends to have greater atomization of your paint. They use a needle that is thinner and longer, allowing you to have more control over how much paint you are putting out at a given time. They just spray finer than the CS.

But, the CS is a great all around work brush. If you are using it to spray basecoats with thicker media, this is the one you want. If you are looking for a brush that can do some tighter work, then the C series is better. You can change the CS nozzle to 0.5mm, to spray thicker stuff or more of whatever you are spraying. I swapped mine out awhile ago to do this.

I’d get the C+/CH for the reasons you noted. I think the CH is one of the best workhorse brushes you can get.

I also have a BH and SB currently. The SB is one of my fav brushes, and very underrated by modellers. Good for detail work primarily, but the SBS could work for general work. It can take side feed bottles and crank out the paint. The BH/SB perform about like the CH, but you can notice the difference. The SB has such fine atomization, that it is very similar to my CMB, and lets you have a lot of control over your paints. The CMB is not much different than the SB on the size of lines that it produces, but it atomizes the paint much better, so you get VERY fine lines overall. These are not so good for large work, but for small jobs. I like the SB for being able to see over the barrel, but the Bs are about the same as the well is pretty small.

How the iwatas work: the CS is like other brushes- it will have a ‘floating’ nozzel, held in place by the cap. However, the B/C nozzles actually ‘screw’ into the body and don’t move.

Oh, one comment on the badger vs. Iwata: I’ve used the 100 series, and while they are good generalized brushes, the iwata brushes just perform better. But they are different brushes. I do like the screw mechanism that the badger 100 has in front of the trigger, which effectively can turn the brush into a ‘single action brush’ unlike the present handle, which simply limits how far back you can pull the handle.

Now, before anyone gets their shorts all wound up- I like the 100. It’s a good starter brush, and you can do a lot with it. BUT (and this is the kicker), for tight detailed work, the Iwata’s (other comparable brushes) are better IMO.

I should say though that the iwata brushes are tough… they are made to be used (not abused). My 100’s airstem started rotating and eventually twisted off (right through the chrome plating…). The Iwatas are just… tough. Solidly built. Bottom line: you get what you pay for in this respect. 100LG- on sale ~$70. HPCH ~ $150 on ebay. Worth every penny in my book.

Too, the iwatas have little tricks that let them spray reeeeeeeaaaaaaallllly close to the work, like removing the crown cap, so you expose the needle- you can spray ~ 1/4" or less away from your work, and do very fine lines. Of course, you’ll have to have really thin paints and spray >10psi most of the time. If you are doing weathering, toning the underlying colors of paints, softening highlights or adding more tone to shades, it works very well.

  • The evolution sounds cool- I’ve often wanted to be able to pull my needles from the front, but with the iwata’s, you’ll have to remove the nozzle.

Well, hope that helps. Disclaimers: I used acyllics primarily though, and this biases my opinions.

Don’t know if this helps. I’ve thought about starting an airbrush review site, or something, because you can never find the info you are looking for as a modeller on these things…

Answers like this are tremendous! It’s this sort of comprehensive review that should be entered into a thread on Airbrush Reviews and it should be stickied in the appropriate area.

FWIW I’m a Badger fan due to the low price, made in the US stamp, and the simple fact that my talent is far exceeded by the ABs capability (at this point). I have both the 100LG and the 150 and they are work horses. I used to have a 150 that was over 20 yrs old and it still performed well. I passed that along to a newcomer and bought a new one because I could afford to, as opposed to needed to.

Having said that I know many users of Iwata and they are almost rabid in their loyalty to the brand. Perhaps one day, when I have “extra” money that isn’t used to buy kits…

My humble opinion : I had the chance to put my hand on several airbrushes and sometimes I had the chance they stayed at my home ( no, I paid for them ) :

Sotar, Paasche AB, Iwata CM C+, HP CH, HP CR, Badger 100 LG, T&C Omni 4000, Efbe AB 1, Gabbert PRS, Aerograph Sprite, Super 63, Harder & Steenbeck Evolution and the more I touch them, the more I love my Evolutions ( I am going to buy a new Silverline FPC one to use three of them in parallel, with different cups, different needles/nozzles ) . For the little I know on the subject, I also appreciate Iwata HP CH, always in the modelling world. I don’t like my HP CR ( Iwata Revolution) a lot as, although product quality is not concerned at all, I feel it “doubles” the Omni 4000, and then I prefer the Omni 4000; so :

_ Harder & Steenbek Evolution

_ Iwata HP CH

This is only my opinion, as one Fellini’s movie character said : “_ I am not a gladiator, I am only a student”

Great opinions. Took a look at the evolutions; I like the switchable cups. I agree wholeheartedly that the CH is a great brush. I see that lots of people like the CS, probably because it is a bit easier to break apart and clean (nozzle doesn’t screw in like with other iwatas…). Since I spray mostly water based media, clean up is not that noxious. but if you were dealing with organic solvents all the time, any simplicity is going to be desireable. That being said, the CH is a great brush. I haven’t seen the evolutions much here in the US; it looks like most retailers are in europe.

Since this old thread was started up again, I thought why not add my [2c] !

Getting back to the original question:
HP-C Plus vs HP-CS and the media being sprayed.

I have done extensive research myself on what I need in an airbrush(es). I have contacted support many times at Iwata and talked face-to-face with people that use airbrushes for a living. Here’s what I have found…

  • Pre-set handle = good for beginners & quick production work.
  • 0.35-mm vs 0.30-mm needle/nozzle = no difference (can even use a 0.50 mm without much noticable difference spraying the media in question).
  • Both AB’s designed to spray the media in question.
  • I was told that with practice you can accomplish the same results with either AB.
  • The 0.2-mm nozzle might come in handy for spraying thinner media. But they (people I talked with) never found a need for it.

I purchased an HP-BCS to get started with as my (and families) needs went beyond just modeling. I was quiet surprised at the fine detail I could get with it, especially having little experience using an AB and it being a siphon-feed. I was later rewarded with a gift from a buddy of mine that owns his own custom auto painting shop, an HP-CS along with all kinds of other goodies. Now with those two AB’s I am pretty well armed to tackle any project that comes along.

I’ll throw this in for good measure and those that might remember…
The Vega 600 I bought from Badger’s garage sale has been working out just fine for my son and I doing one and two-tone color schemes on our car models. No more worrying about young hands and minds messing up my Iwata’s! [;)]

DITTO to what Jim said. I am one of those losers who had gone through 12+ airbrushes to find the ones I like to keep since good reviews were hard to come across (and that my post a year ago about making some page doing head to head comparisons between ABs in similar catergories wasn’t well-received either…) I had assigned my HP-CH to acrylic general paint duty and my HP-CS to general duty for mostly enamel and sometimes acrylic as well. The design for the CS indeed does make it the more frequently used one for slightly easier cleaning. As far as performance goes, I added a preset handle on the CS and they both gives similar results in my hands.

Jim, I actually kept my 0.2mm nozzle HP-BH (n a .23 CM-C+ but let’s not go there) for weathering purposes on armor and aircraft kits where the thinner to paint ratio is like 70:30 if not 80:20 sometimes. I sure don’t see any purpose of it for car modeling though… and yea, it’s good to hear you are doing well with that frankenstein HP-CS.

Oh, this is on the side (and offtopic). if anyone can find a Gunze Procon Boy WA Platinum 0.3mm AB somewhere for under 100 bucks, don’t hesitate to get that. It’s close to the HP-CH in design and features but a crap load cheaper, yet build to the same quality and standard out of the same manufacturer. I bought one off of ebay a short while ago for 90 something bucks just for fun and collection purposes, and boy did it surprise me when I tried to use it. Its price in Japan was only like 12,000 yen.

Ryan, when I was researching and bugged Iwata they told me pretty much the same thing regarding the 0.2-mm needle/nozzle. With the heavier media I was planning on spraying they felt I wouldn’t need it, even when detailing 1:1 vehicles or models. If I was to spray thinner media then they thought it might come in handy.

Thanks, the little I have used the CS it’s been great. When I took it apart to clean it I found it had pretty new looking parts in it. I called up my bud and sure enough, old housing with new guts. I like it for the smaller and finer lines than the BCS, but I still find the need for a brush come time for really thin lines. Guess I still have lots and lots of practicing to do or possibly the need for a different AB. [%-)]

Speaking of different AB’s, a distributor contacted me that carries, what he says to be Iwata knockoffs (there wasn’t even a name on them). When I asked him about replacement parts he told me not a problem, plus Iwata parts fit. In the pictures he showed me they looked exactly like Iwata’s. They were made over there in the orient somewhere and the prices were really cheap. But the catch was I would have had to order a truck load and the shipping from there was expensive. Anyone ever hear of a similar AB? Iwata knockoff?

On the subject of an Iwata knockoff, Maybe someone could tell me who makes this AB? I got it from a friend whos’ wife at the time worked for the Co. thats ingraved on the AB. It’s a supplier of the colorants/dyes? that are used to decorate cakes and baked goods. The little bit of searching I did, I’m still not sure? [?]

I saw a ton of them Taiwan made ABs on ebay like one or two months ago. They looked just like Iwatas, including the custom microns, except they had no brand names engraved on the body. The price usually ends at like half of what the Iwata’s cost, not exactly what I’d call REALLY cheap, but if the worksmanship is okay, it’d be worth it. I’d buy some just for parts for my ABs… Anyone knows who going to Asia before the end of the year? =P