Came across this on the Redstone website. It is an MH-60G without HIRSS. Didn’t think any were built w/o it. No ESSS wing attachment points either, interesting. Guess it is a really early version. Anyone have any info on it? Sal?
Sal,
Squadron Signal H-60 In Action has the exact picture except it is a small black and white of “3689” identifies it as a HH-60G Pave Hawk. Page 38. Caption (The HH-60G Pave Hawk is identical to the MH-60G except for the deletion of the .50 caliber door guns and ESSS stub wing. Aslo the HH-60s will not receive the FLIR turrent. The primary mission of the HH-60G is combat search and rescue.) May have been one of the first ones before the HIRSS was installed. Mentions a 1992 contract in the info about MH-60G’s and HH-60G’s on the same page. Hope this was of some help. Also found mention of HH-60G’s in the SS UH-60 Walk Around on pages 36 and 37. Caption states the HH-60G lacks the nose mounted FLIR turrent and provisions for ESSS pylons of the MH-60G.
Yes, most interesting.
I agree with the hypothesis that it might be an early bird (… without worm[(-D])
Mel’s got it. In the early days, HH-60Gs didn’t have as many bells and whistles as the MH-60G.
Gino - I’m not ignoring your e-mail, between the house and work, I’ve just been super slammed as of late. Got a client who can’t get his …act… together and loves to drop projects on us at the last minute, especially without high res photography. Decal artwork is updated and 95% done - just have to get the AZ tail band marking re-sized to fit. Profiles (there are two schemes) are in progress.
Figured it was an early bird. Didn’t know the MHs and HHs differed so much then.
Grant, no rush on the decals. Just got a couple more orders myself and haven’t even started on the G yet.
Been workin guys…sorry for not responding earlier.
Well boys, what ya got there looks like an HH-60D to me, but possibly an HH-60E. Back when the ole USAF first purchased the -60 they were A models without HIRSS. On a side note, USAF ARRS was on the way out as the boys with stars didn’t think it was a valid mission anymore. We only got the -60 thanks to some 04’s-06’s that had enough foresight to realize that CSAR WAS a valid mission and did a little work-around. The blackhawk was already being brought on line by the Army, so they picked it with several modifications in mind. But more on that some other time if anyone wants to know.
Anyway, at first the Army -60’s were having problems so the USAF put a hold on the project until the bugs were worked out. After this was resolved the USAF got their first compliment of Blackhawks from the Army and sent them off to Corpus Christi for the SAR mods. You might find it interesting that Sikorsky never did (and still really hasn’t as far as I know) signed off on these mods. After all, the Blackhawk was never designed to be a CSAR Helo, rather a tough excellent assault helo. As I’ve told others on this forum the Pavehawk is kinda like taking your Ferrari on vacation and then bringing along the wife, kids, dog, mailman, etc…
I think the first operational Pavehawks were given to the 55th SOS down at Hurlburt Field, and by this time they were either A+'s or L models (in USAF parlance, H-60G’s). Since they were an AFSOC unit, they got the mods for HIRSS and several other SOF specific requirements to include the internal aux fuel tanks, FLIR and such. Another side note is that the single station ESSS system was and has never been used operationally on USAF -60’s, and for that matter I’ve never seen it used in training (my squadron has NEVER owned any and we came online in 1990). BTW, the Army ESSS system was never designed to be an operational system as well, rather it was designed as a ferrying system. Range constraints and troop inginuity incorperated them for tactical use. Hell, when they first used them up here in Alaska on the ARNG’s Blackhawks, the fuel lines would freeze up. Crewdogs were forced to make them work by ducting bleed air around them (true story). Of course they changed this later on. The .50’s in the main cabin doors deal was a 422 TES deal at Nellis and if you ever see a picture of one configured with them, dollars to doughnuts that’s who owns the birds. The configuration is in the Dash-1 but we don’t use it (for reasons I’ve already spoke of on this forum).
After the -60’s started replacing the H-3 for USAF rescue units, there was a distinction which is pointed out in the Squadron book. However, several years after this transition, HH-60G’s started being fitted exactly the same as AFSOC (55th SOS) MH-60G’s with FLIR and miniguns (GAU-2’s). Interestingly, my squadron was one of the first USAF CSAR HH-60G squadrons to get FLIR, but it wasn’t purchased initially by the USAF. Our FLIR units were initially purchased by the DEA since we operationally assisted them looking for marijuana grow operations up here in Alaska (no kidding). We’ve always been able to put .50’s in the windows, but just didn’t do it much. We do it much more now, especially with the new external gun mounts.
So with the exception of the early years, an HH-60G is the same as an MH-60G. The main deal being that H signifies rescue (non-SOF) and M signifies SOF. The 55th SOS birds (while they had them) were called MH-60G’s and the USAF CSAR unit’s birds were HH-60G’s. Remember when AFSOC took over USAF CSAR for a year or two recently? Guess what our Pavehwaks were referred to then…you guessed it…MH-60G’s, that is of course if your squadron was realigned into AFSOC. My unit stayed in PACAF so we’ve always referred to ours as HH-60G’s. Same deal for MC-130P’s and HC-130P’s.
Well, have I muddied this up or does that clear things up a bit? Realize that I’m on hour 11 of my last set of night alerts so bare with me.
Bottom-line, it’s my opinion that that’s an HH-60D or HH-60E. The HH-60E was the prototype for the HH-60G.
Good rundown Sal. Thanks fro the info. Confirmed basically what I thought.
Found another pic:
Those may not be HH-60D/E. I think they might be USAF UH-60A Credible Hawks. There was only one prototype HH-60D, 82-23718 and as I understand, no HH-60Es ever existed, only planned. However all of the USAF’s original UH-60As were eventually upgraded to MH-60G status. The lack of an ESSS stub and HIRSS suggest that those are Credible Hawks in the beginning of their upgrading.
I think Grant may be on to something. Except that my info indicates that 82-23718 was actually the only HH-60A built and she got the party started so to speak. I think that after 718, the problems with the Blackhawk were encoutered (stab hard over, main rotor delam), the nighthawk program was delayed until the bugs got fixed and when it started back up again the HH-60D was proposed for CSAR but was cancelled (not built or only one or two). My understanding is that later, the HH-60D concept was tweaked and that the HH-60E was the proposal that eventually turned into the M/HH-60G.
Soooo Alex, I’d like to change my anwer to “what is an HH-60A?”
BTW, the MH’s were the first to get the Seahawk windows with the HH’s following suit later. They also had rotor brakes before the HH’s.
There’s not a ton of info on the program and much of it differs in small ways, but most of what i’ve indicated has come from written info along with word of mouth from older guys in the squadron and what I’ve seen myself.
Here’s a neat chart I found:
| YUH-60A | UTTAS Prototype |
|---|---|
| UH-60A Black Hawk | US Army final designation |
| UH-60A Pot Hawk | Model for US Custom for anti-drug surveillance |
| UH-60A Credible Hawk | SAR Model for US Air Force |
| GUH-60A | Simulator without flight capacity |
| JUH-60A | Model constructed for evaluations and tests |
| YEH-60A | US Army prototype for electronic warfare (ECM) |
| EH-60A | ECM variant |
| HH-60A | Prototype for USAF (single model 82-23718) |
| MH-60A | First special operations Blackhawk, was a standard UH-60 with many improvements |
| VH-60A | first UH-60 VIP variant |
| UH-60B | Improved engines and avionics; not built but incorporated into the UH-60L |
| YEH-60B | UH-60A for targets acquisition, prototype |
| SH-60B Sea Hawk | Model for US Navy (LAMPS) |
| EH-60C | ECM version for US Army (66 built) |
| HH-60D Night Hawk | Combat SAR model for US Air Force (cancelled) |
| CH-60E | Proposed assault helicopter for US Marines (cancelled) |
| SH-60F Sea Hawk | Model for US Navy CTG |
| MH-60G Pave Hawk | USAF; combat SAR and special operations, equipped with a drogue and a FLIR turret |
| HH-60G Pave Hawk | USAF; similar to MH-60G optimised for CSAR/SAR |
| HH-60H Sea Hawk | Model for US Navy CSAR/SOF |
| HH-60J Jay Hawk | US Coast Guard for SAR functions |
UH-60J |
Japanese model similar to UH-60L with SAR functions, constructed under licence in Japan |
MH-60L MH-60K |
US Army improved MH-60A for SOF US Army; similar to MH-60G, but with a better equipment |
| AH-60L | gunship for US Army MH-60L |
| UH-60L | Improved model of UH-60A, see UH-60B |
| VH-60N White Hawk | US President; equipped with improved avionics and communication system |
| UH-60P | Model for Southern Korea |
| UH-60Q | Dust-off Hawk Medical model |
| SH-60R Sea Hawk | Model for US Navy (sea above) |
| CH-60S Knight Hawk | Model for US Navy (sea above) |
| MH-60S Knight Hawk | Model for US Navy (sea above) |
That’s the messed up thing - we’re both right. The timeline and suffixes are all screwy. 82-23718 was one of the UH-60As the Air Force got thru the Army in 1982. It was modified as the HH-60D prototype in 1984, but was never fully outfitted to D standard. My understanding is that the HH-60E was a watered down Night Hawk (no TF/TA radar, no FLIR, no moving map display & no helmet mounted displays).
When the Night Hawk D/E plan was canceled, 82-23718 was called an HH-60A in 1985 after being outfitted with some new avionics and intended to be the first of that type (the HH-60A amounted to a really, really watered down Night Hawk), but funding problems killed that version too. I think 82-23718 was the only example of the HH-60A ever made.
Thus in 1987 the MH-60G was born out of the Credible Hawks (and some new build airframes) since that batch the Air Force bought had the wiring and plumbing installed for ESSS and provisions for the fitting of HIRSS exhaust suppresors. The HH-60G designation came about in 1991 (for reasons I think Sal has mentioned before) and the MH- models always had funding priority (which is why they got rotor brakes, new windows, FLIR, etc) before the HH-60Gs. Over the years they’ve evolved into the common HH-60G Pave Hawk model we know and love today.
Source - World Air Power Journal, Volume 13, Summer 1993; Sikorsky S-70/H-60 Variant Briefing Part 2: Air Force and Navy Versions
I don’t know how many, if any of the original 11 Credible Hawks are still flying today, but if they are, that would mean that there are HH-60Gs out there that have been flying for almost 23 years.
Credible Hawk tail numbers: 81-23643 thru 647, 82-23761, 82-23680, 82-23689, 82-23708, 82-23718 & 82-23728.
Another interesting MH-60G Pic - this one shot before 1993:
I don’t think there are any of the credible Hawks still flying as HH-60Gs mainly because every airframe I’ve ever seen or worked from has had the tail number 26###.
Now that IS and interesting picture. Got to be a weapons/ESSS trial or test with the FFARs and what looks to be a SUU-? minigun pod (I think it might be a little too small for a 20 mike mike, but it could be). Where was it taken Grant? Nellis? Eglin?
Sure does give me some interesting ideas[;)][;)]
Sorry Sal, I’m clueless here. I’m holding on to a slim hope that somebody will recognize the buildings and/or water tower.
However, I hink you’re on to something with that gun pod being an SUU-11/A 7.62mm