I’ve been wanting to covert Hasegawa’s 1/700 Ticonderoga to Shangri-la. I’ve been doing research around the web, including Timm Smith’s exceptional model here in 1/350:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/cv/cv-38/350-ts/ts-index.html
I want to portray the ship as she appeared around the time of the Okinawa battle, or the spring/early summer of 1945. Still unsure about a couple of things.
-
When did Shangri-la lose her Measure 33/10a camouflage and adopt her Measure 21 scheme? I wanted to do up the model in the simpler Measure 21 scheme, if possible.
-
When did her island radar set up change for this:
to this? These may be from much later–1947, but other photos I’ve seen show a similar set up already in '45.
I read somewhere that she underwent an overhaul in June 1945, so maybe then?
- And finally, what is the cylindrical object on the pole on Timm Smith’s build? It also seems to appear in the second photo, reputedly from July, 1945.
I have Gold Medal Models PE set for Essex-class carriers, and the instruction sheet describes the earlier radar set up, around January '45, too early for Okinawa.
I would very much appreciate any assistance and information. Or, maybe there is a book out there with photos and info that I haven’t run across?
One of the original plank owners is a friend (now in his upper 80’s), aboard the ship at Okinawa, and I’d like to show him as accurate a representation of CV-38 as I can.
Thanks!
According to Snyder and Short’s USN WW II camo site, CV 38 was painted in measure 21 overall Navy Blue 5-N during the 1945 overhaul. So you will be OK with the Navy Blue.
Can’t be much help on the radar suite. Since the second of your photos is obviously not in measure 21, your guess about it being 194, certainly later than '45, could be correct.
Good luck.
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your insight!
Glad to help.
Are you going to mark the flight deck with the “Z” instead of “38?”
I think those last few weeks in June 1945 could be the key. I find several entries of the ship spending 18 days anchored at Leyte Gulf for “upkeep and recreation”. Bit frustrating that of the dozen or so websites I’ve visited, none offer more detail as to what exactly was done to the ship.
I found this photo date June 12, 1944 (day before the break period):
regards,
Jack
Mike: I was planning on marking the flight deck with a black “Z.” I’ve seen photos with a white “Z,” but that. I think, dates from a later period–near the very end of the war and after.
Jack: I’ve had the same results looking over the web–not really too much out there. The photo you posted looks like she’s still in the Measure 33 “dazzle” scheme. I’m thinking she must have gone over to Measure 21 in late January or February, '45.
Couldn’t find any books specifically on CV-38, but ran across a couple of generic titles about Essex class carriers from Amazon. Might be they’ll have something.
Thanks for the assistance, guys! I do appreciate it.
Those books, are they the Osprey published titles? I ran across one of them, likely an illegal online screen capture of the pages, and did note it stated Shangri La had no upgrades during WW2. I’ll see if I can find the link, or maybe you saw it too?
regards,
Jack
Hi, Jack. I got your PM and sent you one back.
The two books I ordered were “Shipcraft 12” and “Warships No. 10,” both on the Essex-class carriers. Not sure if there is even much mention of CV-38 in either one of them.
In the link you sent in the PM, the index was included, so I checked that as far as I could. Doesn’t seem like there was a lot of time for the Shang to get very much attention once she joined the Fast Carrier Force.
Thanks again!
Right , one other photo I came across , dated January 30th 1945. Looks to still have dazzle camou on the island:
web page link: http://www.vbf-85.com/Photographs.html
regards,
Jack
Jack: Yes! Just sent you another PM, too. I mentioned that a site I ran across this morning claims she was repainted between 23 February and 2 March, 1945. She’d still be in dazzle in January.
I really don’t want to get involved with another one of those camo measures right now! [:^)]
They look good–but are they ever labor-intensive!!
Measure 21 (45 reversion) started in late Feb 45. I don’t know if she got back to a yard big enough to repaint her and she may have been in the splinter camo at Okinawa. I would have to do some research. By the way, one of the closest colors to 5N is a Vallejo color “German Uniform Blue” or something like that. I had to do some extensive research for the Indy to get it right. I can find out the color I’m using if you want.
Steve
Carrier colors
Thanks for your efforts, Steve. I don’t use acrylics, though. I’ve got a minor supply of WEM Colourcoats in US Navy colors that ought to last for a while. And I picked up some of Model Master’s recent release of Navy paints, so I think I’m good there.
The books I ordered from Amazon arrived, on the subject of the whole Essex class. Not much specific about CV-38, but there was a brief mention in the text that her radar array was altered in January 1945. So that about answers my questions her camo measure alteration and radar.
Right now I’m dabbling with the guns and doing research. One thing I’ve learned is that this whole project is a lot more involved that I thought it would be. Both the hull and the flight deck will require surgery.
I appreciate your helpfulness!
And–thanks for the bump, GM!
You’re in luck about the paint…Shang was repainted in Measure 21 scheme in February 1945, before heading to Okinawa. She arrived at Pearl on 15 February, 1945 and was repainted there. She then was used to train pilots in carrier landing until April, when she set out for the war zone. I do believe, though this could be wrong, that the radar was not upgraded before Okinawa. The closest info I have found so far is that in the end of 1945 she was put up for almost a month at Puget Sound for shipyard work, and that would suggest that those radar upgrades were carried out then. I have not found anything that would suggest that Shang’s radar set was changed out any time before then. You posted a photo showing what the radar looked like in 1947, here is a photo showing September 1945 for comparison:
www.navsource.org/…/023818.jpg
I know, it’s not the best photo of the radar sets, but it is all I could find. For reference, Shang was still near Japan in September 1945, departing on 1 October 1945 to head home. She went to Bremerton/Puget Sound on 9 December and stayed there until 30 December.
My dad sailed on the Shang in 66 and 68, with VF-13. In WWII her nickname was “Tokyo Express”…by the time my dad was aboard, she was with the 6th Fleet in the Med, and her nickname was “Old Razorblades”…that’s because the men aboard her at that time felt that all that was left for Shang was to be scrapped.
Watching this one with interest…
Task Force 38- Commanded by Rear Admiral John S. McCain.
Thanks for the information, F-8 and GMorrison!
The radar array is kind of an “iffy” issue. I appreciate the photo! One of the books I bought states that Shang did have her radar changed out before going into action. She originally had the SK-2 on the mast, and this was changed to the side of the funnel, as per the photo you posted.
In his construction report, Timm Smith said he followed the 1947 radar set up, assuming it wasn’t changed much from the arrangement during the war.
It looks like the radar at the back of the mast platform is SC-2. I’m not quite sure what’s at the front of the platform (S-M?) or at the top of the mast (YE?). Both look like squares or rectangles. Eventually I’m going to have to settle on something and go with it.
I did ask my plankowner friend, and he said that the radar was changed/rearranged before the ship went into combat.
Once again, thanks to both of you.
I finished a model of USS Shangri-la CV-38 for the 1945 group build. Here are a couple of photos.
I appreciate the helpful information I received here.
I really like that model. Measure 21 isn’t a crowd pleaser but it looks accurate.
Do you have plans for an air wing?
Thanks, GM. I do; but I’m going to get the planes from Trumpeter. The kit-supplied aircraft were shabby. Lots of sink marks; solid (not clear) molded; little stumps for landing gear. Probably get after it in the new year.
Good plan. I just populated my last carrier model with Trump AV-8B’s. Really nice little models, althought the decal’s were pretty unusable.
Helldivers ?
