Hi all, I need a FS # for Hull Red. Also would it work for a WWII vessel and one from today?
Also, Boot Top black should be just flat black right?
As always thanks in advance for your help.
Wade
A color that is very close if Floquil Tuscan Red.
Jake
Tuscan red will work fine. Several of the paint companies (Testors, Humbrol, White Ensign, Gunze, Tamiya, and probably others) also make colors they label “hull red.” I don’t think anybody would be in a position to decree that any of those colors was “right” or “wrong.”
I would suggest not making too big a deal out of matching a particular FS number here. “Hull red” isn’t a camouflage color; it’s a combination primer and marine growth inhibitor. I suspect the shade isn’t constant, even in today’s U.S. Navy; it certainly hasn’t been consistent from nation to nation and from decade to decade.
Some underwater hull coatings contain minute particles of metal, such as copper, that are mixed in with the other chemicals to discourage marine growth. Such paint looks bright copper when it’s freshly applied, but as it dries and oxidizes it turns a dark red shade that we associate with hull bottoms. I don’t know whether modern naval hulls are painted with that sort of stuff (I doubt it), but some of the bottom paints sold by marine hardware dealers work like that.
My impression is that, since the bottom of a hull isn’t normally visible, navies in general have been less concerned about the appearance of bottom paint than they have with the colors above the waterline. Green bottom paint is fairly common in the merchant marine, and some warships over the years have had black bottoms. I once saw a color photograph of the U.S.S. Iowa on the ways, just before she was launched. Color inks change over time, and different films render colors differently, but by any reasonable definition that hull bottom was painted dark yellow. I don’t recommend painting a model of the Iowa like that, but it illustrates the problem.
The same general comments apply to boot topping. I have the impression that modern USN ships’ waterline stripes are indeed black or something close to it. But that certainly isn’t applicable to warships in general. I personally would never paint a model’s waterline pure black - unless it was a mighty big model. Pure black always looks out of scale, and even if the paint on the real ship was pure black originally, it wouldn’t stay that way long.
Wade, for the boot stripe just lighten the black somewhat with white. A very dark grey will look like a proper black for our scales.
Dave
I’ve found that “Panzer Grey” with a light coat of semi-gloss works very well in the 1:100 to 1:200 scales. For black, not red
Mike K.
Youse guys, as always are da greatest.
Thanks fellas.
Wade
I don’t know how close it is to “hull red”, but I like the look of Model Master acrylic Anti-Fouling Red. They don’t put an FS number on the bottle.
Ed.
Long Island Ship Model Society
Can you get a good hull red by mixing red with some brown?
Dave
Greetings–
I’m not honestly sure about the FS #, but the color most used for the hulls of USN WWII ships was called “Norfolk Antifouling Red”–White Ensign Models, and I’m sure some of the other good companies like Humbrol, makes an essentially perfect Antifouling Red. As to the color used on modern warships, I’m not sure. I am about to build an Arizona model, and intend to use WEM Antifouling Red on the hull. White Ensaign, particularly the guys who are their US Distributors, Snyder & Short, are quite the authorities on ship camoflage, and could probably answer your question more fully-- see www.shipcamoflage.com
Hope this helps.
jtilley is right on regarding the “accuracy” of antifouling paints. While the color is usually a brick red when first applied, it changes rapidly with immersion. If you see a ship drydocked after three years afloat (the typical time between dockings) the underwater hull is more likely to be a faded greenish brown. I usually use Humbrol’s Hull Red.
The boot topping is usually flat black. Most navies use an ablative paint that won’t hold marine growth, so it too may fade with exposure.
Incidentally, the frigate USS Stein was painted a trial low visibility scheme in the early '90s, in which the hull numbers were subdued shades of gray instead of the white shaded with black (just as was eventually adopted by all US Navy ships) and the back, ie boot topping, upper mast and stack cap were a dark gray. The current low vis scheme used by the Navy keeps the black boot topping and paints the stack cap and upper mast haze gray. I suppose modern gas turbine engines do not produce the soot associated with oil fired steam plants.
In any event, the elimination of the black aboard Stein was supposed to reduce the contrast between shades, which supposedly was easier to pick up in infrared.
I use Oxide Red from Floquil’s train colors and like the way it looks. It goes on a little dark but lightens up a shade when it dries.
I’ve used Plastikote red oxide (234) for my boats and am quite satisfied with its looks. I also have a jar of Floquil marine paint that is lableled anti-fouling red. I will use it on a project one of these days.
The USCG used gloss black as boot top, but as all are aware, once you put the boat in dirty water the gloss wiil fade. I think that I would use a tinted black if I were depicting a boat underway and if not then I would use what the paint manual recommends.
Andy
They differed from navy to navy, and even from period to period.
In WW2 the USN used Norfolk 65-A Antifouling Red, which we have accurately matched in our Colourcoats enamels, having obtained an actualy sample of 65-A. The modern USN antifouling red is quite different, and we’ve got that accurately matched as well.
We’ve also got accurate matches for the Royal Navy, and for the Kriegsmarine, and are working on a match for the Imperial Japanese Navy’s antifouling red.
Not all red are equal, and if you’re interested in accuracy, well…
Cheers,
John Snyder
White Ensign Models
http://WhiteEnsignModels.com
Just to give you an idea about the anti-fouling red used on modern US Navy ships, look at these pictures from the damaged USS San Francisco. The pictures were taken after she was put into dry dock following the collision. with a sea mount at high speed. Notice that most of the red has worn off anyway.
http://images.military.com/Shock/0,,SA_050127_SubCrash,00.html
I find hull red and anti-fouling red to bright. I use British Crimson by Model Master. Red oxide is the same as rust and to dark.
I do not think there was an FS# because it was not used for cammo.
The most important thing written here in this thread is the repeated assertion that the color varies from ship to ship and isn’t worth stressing over, but let me throw this in: For the anti-fouling “Lead Red” paint on the Titanic, the titanic-model site recommends Rustoleum #1967 Metal Primer. It’s a medium brick red with some brown overtones. It’s accurate enough that Cameron’s model crews used it in the Titanic movie. It should stand in for just about any anti-fouling paint below the waterline on steel ships.
Boot topping is not flat black! It is a semi gloss or a satin black paint that might dull over time but doesn’t turn to a true “flat” for a very long while if ever. (It’s wet most of the time)
The primary purpose of anti-fouling paint is to inhibit corrosion, but the secondary purpose is to discourage the growth of marine organisms such as algae and barnacles. This is done by the inclusion of a poison, which gradually leeches out of the paint and kills anything trying to live on it. Due to this leeching of the poisons, the colour of anti-fouling paints therefore fade quicker than other paints.
Cheers,
Dougie