HMS Victory Forecastle Bulwarks

Modeling Subjects Ships
1

Folks -

There was a nice discussion started over on MSW regarding the fo’c’s’le bulwarks of HMS Victory.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12051-hms-victory-trafalgar-forecastle/

It seems that the Tate Gallery in London has posted JMW Turner’s 1806 sketchbook online. Turner was one of the throng who visited the Victory shortly after her return to England following Trafalgar and he made many sketches of the ship including a very detailed one of the bow which clearly shows the fo’c’s’le fitted with bulwarks. He also shows no ornate side entry port.

http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/turner-the-victory-fore-part-of-starboard-side-d05486

Here is a copy of my comments:

Many folks argue that the famous Turner painting of Trafalgar done in later years was based on a more “modern” 1820’s version of the ship and erroneously included the fo’c’s’le bulwarks and omitted the entry port. It also showed the gun port stripes extending forward around the cutwater - thought to be a more modern paint scheme.

These sketches were first used by Turner for his 1806 painting “Victory returning from Trafalgar, in three positions” held in the Yale university British art collection. This painting suggests that the extended stripes around the cutwater were present when Turner originally toured the ship:


http://collections.b…/Record/1665469

I think this painting only became available online within the last year or so.

This shows all of the controversial elements: Fo’c’s’le Bulwarks, no entry port, and stripes around the cutwater.

Here are all the elements in place In Turner’s very famous Trafalgar painting:

http://www.tate.org…ber-1805-tw0522
http://www.tate.org…rafalgar-n00556

They also show up in Clarkson Stansfield’s painting commissioned by veterans of Trafalgar:

https://en.wikipedia…n_Stanfield.jpg

These are all elements that I will include on my Victory when I eventually return to that project. Of course I’ll also need to consider the newly uncovered gun stripe color…

2

Thank you for the post, in particular the link to MSW.

Wow, Turner is breathtaking. Theres a drawing on the forum at MSW that is just tremendous, sort of a port front quarter view. His perspective in freehand is so natural and effortless.

I’ve been to the Tate, very much worth the time to see his paintings in the flesh.

3

Evan,

Thanks for posting this, I love the line drawings as well as the paintings. Although, I am not sure I will be painting the gun port stripes on my Heller HMS Victory with the new colors or across the cutwater. Must be a conservative or some such thing. I will be scraching the forward bulwarks though.

Steve

4

We have discussed this issue previously in several threads. In fact, I believe someone here has started work on the Heller 1/100 kit to build the forward bulwarks; the hull sides correctly not having the entry point. I would love to see any progress! The Caldercraft kit does show the forward bulwarks.

I also believe that we concluded the the current configuration of the ship was done after Trafalgar, or has been modified by the museum team, but I am not sure. Perhaps John Tilley could weigh in.

Bill Morrison

5

Bill -

You might be referring to my feeble effort some time back to experiment a bit with adding bulwarks to theHeller kit. I have an extra hull that is already damaged, so I can play to my heart’s content:

I didn’t look for perfection - just trying to get a sense of the required scale. I think it’ll need to be a bit thinner on the final version and I’ll still need work out the layout across the front. Fun stuff… I hope to get back to this build some decade soon!

Evan

6

Don’t forget the newly discovered color scheme for the Trafalgar era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmNXRWtQ-P0

Mike

7

Evan,

I was, in fact, referring to your model. I hope that you do continue your efforts. Also, I believe that the excellent Caldercraft kit of the Victory does have the forward bulwarks.

Bill

8

Anybody who’s seriously interested in this subject needs to get hold of a copy of the Nautical Research Journal for Summer, 2015 (vol.60, no.2). It contains an article titled “What Did HMS Victory Actually Look Like at the Battle of Trafalgar?” by John Conover.

I confess this is my first acquaintance with Mr. Conover, but he knows what he’s doing. He shows us no fewer than eight drawings Turner made when he went on board the ship after the battle. They reveal a wealth of interesting stuff. He also addresses the “block model” of the Victory, apparently made during or after the ship’s 1802 refit (and now in the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich).

At the end of the article Mr. Conover presents a small, computer-made drawing that shows what he thinks the ship looked like in October, 1805. The most noticeable characteristics:

Shoulder-high, unornamented bulwarks around the forecastle - with three gunports on each side. But no bulwark across the forward side of the forecastle.

Boarded-up hammock nettings in the waist.

Shoulder-high, unornamented bulwarks on each side of the quarterdeck, with five gunports on each side between the main- and mizzenmasts.

Boarded-up hammock nettings around the poop (but not across the aft end of it).

An additional cheek knee on each side of the bow, bracing the knee of the head.

No entry ports.

Frankly, to my eye at least, the ship in Mr. Conover’s drawing is nowhere near as attractive aesthetically as the ship I’ve seen at Portsmouth. But I believe he got it just about right.

I have the impression that few, if any, participants in this Forum are acquainted with the the Na**utical Research Journal. It’s been published since about 1947 by the Nautical Research Guild, and it can reasonably claim to be the best American magazine about ship modeling - and quite a few other maritime subjects. Membership (including the magazine subscription) costs $48.00 per year. For that you get four issues of the Journal, and lots of other benefits. The Guild holds a convention every year (each time in a different part of the country), and those conventions are a blast, with presentations by modelers about all sorts of subjects, a banquet, vendors, etc. (Rather like the IPMS conventions.) The Guild maintains a lending library of most of the important books on ship modeling and the history of ships, and will ship them to any member who asks for them. The Journal contains articles about prototype ships and boats, model construction, queries and answers, etc. Each issue has a section of book reviews. And, for a surprisingly low price, you can buy the entire run of the Journal since its founding on CD-ROM. A priceless source of information and ideas.

Highly recommended. If interested, go to www.thenrg.org.

9

John,

Thanks for the link. I will check it out.

Bill

10

Someone mentioned the new colour scheme of the Victory. Anyone managed to reproduce what they now call “Victory Hull Ochre”? I now have to either repaint all of the guns I had made for the 1/100 Heller kit, or just leave all gun port lids closed (which could make sense if I am to represent the ship as if it was docked). Sheesh!