What makes you think that?
Yeah, I’m still around. Just haven’t had a lot of time to post here, or finish things at home, or build models. I will be at the Dec. meeting. You going to make it?
I like your style phoenix. The club I belong to thinks the same way you do,we’ve even angered some members of the other local clubs for not playing favoritism.
You guys let me know if you have some spare time in March, its the club’s 20th anniversary and contest. I’ll post more info later if you guys want it, Allen.
Sheesh, how about a hard question? The co-pilot is reading my research paper, “Relational Values Among Shape-Shifting Non-Variable Hobsons: When To Take the Liveried Equine Closest to the Point of Final Egress as An Exercise in Judgmental Matrixes” - and he’s holding the darn thing upside down!!!
Nope, still wrong, the guy in the back seat isn’t a copilot, they don’t have copilots, he is a WSO, or Weapons System Officer, much like a RIO in the late, great, Tomcat, Radar Intercept Officer… now that is counting rivets [:D] Sorry, I couldn’t resist!
playing favorits does happen as does homebrewing and it does nothing but ruin it for everybody and give good clubs and judges a bad rep. I can tell you it will not happen on my shift. I have seen it and even been on the receiving end of it. It’s impossible to police all of the clubs and it is very hard to prove after the fact. Modelers put alot of effort, time, and money into there projects so I do take it seriously when I am judging.
Dave6003 thanks, I try to as fair as possible. If you had a pic to back it up then I don’t see the problem. Next time call them out on it. If the judges are honest they should have no problem explaining why you diden’t place.
Allen109 Thanks, your club sounds like a good one. I am not the only one who thinks this way. I would hope that most judges do.
I have been a judge a few times and it is very hard if you take the responsibility seriously. Say 30 models in a category. You try to eliminate some based on basic building results. Errors( or perceived errors are one way to eliminate models). So you now have six outstanding models. Then what critieria do you use? I then look at the special work that was done and the documentation supporting it. In the case you cited I would probably have eliminated the aircraft for the misplaced insignia unless it was highlighted on the application form adjoining the model.
I have now reached the conclusion that when I don’t win an award it may because others are better or it was too close to call or the judges just don’t get it. In any case, I don’t feel bad because it is soooooo subjective no matter how hard some of us try to be objective. That is the way it is. If you want to be absolutely perfectly objective re the quality of your models, then judge them yourself(lol)
When the judging is fair, I don’t mind loosing to a better produced model. The incident I was talking about happened at Pensacola NAS, many years ago. One of the judges had spent four years in the Air Force as a weapons specialist. All was spent at Luke AFB in the early 70’s. He got out after four years as a two striper. He called himself a F-4 expert and a weapons expert. This guy carried a book listing almost every aircraft by block and serial number, so he could compare actual numbers against the numbers on the model.
To the best of my memory here are some of the comments.
Comment. Radome is white, should be black.
Reply. At that time almost every RF-4C was painted gull gray over white. Only aircraft in SEA were camouflaged. When parts were ordered through supply they would come from the states as white or gull gray.
Comment. External wing tanks are white. Should be green over gray.
Reply. See above.
Comment. Impulse cart breech on external tanks not shown.
Reply. This is getting very nit pickey. He is showing his knowledge trying to show up another F-4 man. Very few makers of model kits include the impulse breaches on the 370 gal tanks. In this case, the aircraft depicted MDD tanks loaded on the aircraft. There was a breach cover that was installed when carts were loaded, which could be seen. When the SGt Fletcher tanks were introduced for the F-4. the breach covers were not used so then the breaches could be seen. The man did not know difference between MDD tanks and SGt Fletcher tanks. Same with the 600 Gal centerline. He should have dinged me for not having a red cap painted on the tank. The reason was the MDD tank did not have a service cap installed. He missed that one. as he assumed it had the SGt Fletcher tank. which should have had a cap.
Comment. Rudder is white, should be camouflaged. Vertical fin cap is gull gray. Should be green or Squadron color. Drag chude door is gull gray. Should be green.
Reply. Again see above for color schemes. We did not paint our fin caps in the squadron colors nor did we carry any type of unit markings other the the tail assignment code.
Comment. Sheet metal patches on vertical stab not painrted. Should be toned down. Same with horz stab. Very poor placement of patches.
Reply. Who has time to paint repair work when we were flying combat missions day after day, with no let up. Charlie and North Vietnam were very busy sending supplies down the trail and new supplies were arriving through the ports from China, Russia and other countries in November and December of 1967. Unknown to us they were prepairing for Tet, 1968. That is the way that aircraft flew on its final mission on 16 December, 1967, when it was lost over Hiaphong.
Comment. Incorrect tail number. Number does not exist.
Reply. See previous post.
Comment. Inboard pylons not installed. Aircraft can not fly with pylons removed.
Reply. At that time the RF-4B/C were not pylon capable. There wasn’t a need to carry pylons as no weapons could be carried. In late 1968 the RF-4B/C was modified to carry pylons so ECM pods could be carried. With radar controled SAM’s and AAA, we were loosing a lot of RF-4 aircraft. With pylons installed and ECM pods carried it would give them a better chance of survival. It also helped the aircraft fly better at high altitude and speed by stopping the nose wobble. As a result pylons became a necessity to prevent wobble and aircraft had to have them installed to fly, only after they were modified to carry them.
Sounds like that judge was locked in too many lockers in school. Bet he was a hall monitor too
Judges can be interesting, but need to be watched.
A few years ago we were holding a regional and invited some members from a club on the coast to help judge. Each one would be assigned to one of our judges.
The one I got was helping me in the 1/48th aircraft when he spotted a C-130 sitting on a base and started making comments about how he was gettign tired of seeing that same model over and over. Then he started making comments about how the camo pattern was wrong and tried looking for anything else he could find wrong.
I immediately stopped him and told him that he shouldn’t be talking so loud because he was disturbing the other judges and starting to make a scene infront of the last of the visitors who were on their way out. I called one of the club officers over and went over what had just happened and then informed the guest judge that he was suposed to be judging other aircraft and not this one. I also told him that the pattern and other things were correct and that this model and base were entered for the first time. I knew because I had entered it.
I then pulled mysel out of the 1/48th area altogether and turned it over to someone else and judged other areas.
FYI, as an aside: The leading edge slats on Bf 109s were freely movable, so as to “self-adjust” during low-speed flight, giving the airfoil more stability. When not in flight, they were often times pushed into the “closed” position by the “Blackies” (ground crewman, so-called because of there black coveralls) so as to keep them from being fouled by dirt, etc.
Cheers,
JK
Having made the mistake of hand writing out the entry forms in the last contest, it does seem that favouritism does occur at most contests. Next time, I will type, maybe even with two different fonts!
The commentary that I overheard was fair, but at some points very demeaning to the modeler, to the point of ridiculousness…but nothing to compare with the verbage spewed out by the other modeler’s attending the event. I felt terrible for one guy, who showed up with a big grin and a decently built ship, and who left with a strained smile. This kind of attitude we show towards newcomers to the hobby really stinks, and that sort of “one-upmanship” does nothing to draw new members into our dwindling group.
There was a cluster of ubermodelers ( or jmn’s:)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=JMN
that rotated around the displays putting down everything and anything…unless it was built by one of them or their friends. I know, I got quite a lot of negative conversation just lingering on the fringes of the little debris cloud.
Judging has to be critical…if everyone won something, it would be too p.c., and dull and boring. It just seems to me that the comments should be limited to the model, not the modeler. It would have also been refreshing if the judge would bother to read the entry form to see the information about the model…one of the judging groups at this last contest never did.