Trying a new subject type - a modern (cold war era, at least) fast attack sub. I’m building the Los Angeles out of sentimentality towards my city of origin and have seen two different schemes. Actually I have two kits - a 1/700 and a 1/350; amazon sent me a 700th scale when I ordered the 350th scale. I tried to exchange it but instead they refunded me the 14 bucks and told me to keep the item, so I promptly ordered one from hobbytown and am going to stash the 700th scale for a later diorama of a 700th scale carrier group. Anyway, the 700th scale shows the lower hull and nose in hull red (A), and the 350th scale shows the hull red up to the waterline, with most of the nose (2/3rds) in hull red (B). I know that nuclear subs are now all black (all though I’ve seen the new… Virginia? class subs have a medium gray non-skid above the waterline) but I’m confused as to which is correct.
Also, I know Tamiya Hull Red is way off base, and Model Master Hull Red seems to be closer to a WWII era color. I was thinking 3:1 flat red to red brown to try and get as close to the hull red as possible. Above waterline I was going to 50:50 nato black and rubber black, then add a couple drops of white and paint the non-skid that color - any insights (corrections) anyone could offer would be much appreciated.
Cheers!
A:
B:
Also this is a pretty cool cutaway view of the anatomy of a 688: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2002/09/09/sub_laclass.gif
I stumbled upon it while looking for pictures and thought it might be an interesting link for those of us who haven’t been lucky enough to be aboard a fast attack boat.
The red nose is one I’ve never seen, and discount. It makes no sense.
Usually, any boats that were painted red below the waterline ended up all black.
Yep, the word of paint colors is an intersting one in black. I’d guess I have at least 15 different blacks in my collection, from Testors square bottle Gloss Black to Floquil Steam Power.
Really black sub models don’t always photograph well.
NATO Black (Tamiya) is in fact my current fave.
I have yet to see any of the model companys’ suggested painting scheme for modern American submarines on actual submarines. They are fictions of someone’s imaginations. In fact, I have seen two basic color schemes aboard real boats; some are painted overall flat black while others are painted red from bow to stern on the lower half of the hull. It depends on the boat in question. Also, those rescue markings that the manufacturers provide around the hatches should only be there if modeling the boat on builder’s trials, not when in commission. Your model should include draft marks forward, midships, aft and on the forward edge of the rudder. Some boats also have draft marks on both sides of the rudder as well. Masts and antennae also vary; during my service in submarines, these were painted light gray with dark gray/black splotches. At some point between my retiring in late 1996 and today, they are painted overall dark gray.
Hull numbers are hung from the top of the sail on placards when in port. They are not painted anywhere on either the hull or sail except for builder’s trials. Nor are the names of the boat painted on the hull.
Flat black paints usually end up too dark, especially in these scales. I usuall mix Engine Gray with Flat Black to tone it down a little in a 50-50 mix. When I paint lower hulls red, I simply use Flat Red. I paint the propeller a mix of bronze and copper, about 25% bronze to 75% copper.
I hope that this helps. I served on six boats in my career, including three 688’s.
Good luck!
Bill Morrison
It’s interesting, I was in Groton for my entire enlistment - by choice - mind you, almost got assigned to the crashville in Norfolk. Seems I got there right around when you were leaving… I believe Trepang was a few months out from her decom run. Anyway, I’m getting off point.
During my adventures on lower base I don’t believe I ever saw hull numbers hung on the boats, I only ever saw their names. I was on Albuquerque and we had a brown sign with gold lettering that read ‘USS Albuquerque’, never 706… I’m certain Corpus Christi, Miami, and Dallas all hung their names as well but again, I don’t ever recall seeing hull numbers. Those were always on the command murals hung from the brow.
As for color, I’m not much ahead of warshipguy but last drydock I was with the command, the boat was still semi-gloss black over the sail, fairwater planes, and the upper hull. The entire sonar dome and the sonar mount on the sail were a flat black, but they always looked gray. Same with the nonskid, it often had a gray look to it as well. The lower hull was red however that color did not extend to the stern planes, which were the same semigloss black as the upper hull. This was sometime around '99.
The sad part is how long it’s been since I’ve used any of the terminology in conversation. I’m just now realizing how much has faded from memory.
Edit: There were also no vertical stabilizers on the stern planes… I don’t believe any of the 688’s had them, ever.
Here’s a picture illustrating what I’m talking about. They evidently painted the sign black from the brown I mentioned last post. Please note there are no hull numbers displayed anywhere but the brow. You can clearly see the sheen of the black and the flat turned gray on the sail.
Another thing to consider with modern boats is the use of tiles applied to the hull for various acoustic purposes. I’ve never seen an in-service LA-class boat without them. They didn’t sail on initial sea trials with them installed, but were always coated with them after joining the fleet. I don’t know if any kit manfacturer has bothered to mold this detail into the model hull.
Excellant photos of submarines can be found in the USN photo gallery at navy.mil.
Depending on the individual boat’s officers and crew some boats will have a considerable build-up of slime around the waterline. Even if the boats are kept clean pier side, there will be a slight discoloration around the waterline from the build-up of sea growth. Navy.mil photos will bear this out.
Boats pier side can also have some discoloration beneath the diesel exhausts on the sail. This can be prominate, or not, again depending on the crew and the boat’s current status.
Enjoy your build.
Albuquerque was one of my six boats! I also served aboard USS Ethan Allen (SSBN/SSN 608), USS Michigan (SSBN 727), USS Dallas (SSN 700), USS Pasadena (SSN 752), and USS Maine (SSN 741). My service in submarines lasted between 1977 - 1996. All were painted as I described. The only time the names were hung from the sail was for special ceremonies. The routine, even today, is to hang the ships’ number from the sail on placards. The name is always on the canvas bunting on the brow.
Color schemes have changed somewhat after my retirement in late 1996; the masts and antennae, which had been camouflaged, now appear a dark gray.
Mike, Hobby Boss does mold those rubber tiles on some of their Soviet submarines. I didn’t notice them on their U.S. boats.
BIll
That’s random, what div? Mancini was still COB when I first reported… Not sure why we’re remembering things so differently though. I never, not even one time, saw numbering hung in port on Albuquerque. We exclusively hung our name from the sail and a mural on the brow.
I’m also certain that during my time, they were a semi-gloss/satin black with a matte dome. Some of the other boats had ‘camo’ masts but by my time, ours were gray and the extensions were that pale green color.
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Here’s another showing the signage non-ceremonially hung. Like I said, used to brown like this but was painted or replaced with a black one after my time.
I was the Corpsman between '85 and '87. CDR Bird was the CO, LCDR Tracy the XO. It is interesting about the differences a couple of years make in the way the boat was painted. What years were you stationed onboard?
Bill
I was assigned to Albuquerque from '97 through '99. Did a short stint TAD on Seawolf before that.
Jericho,
Nice to “meet” you, Shipmate! I retired from the USS Maine (SSBN 741) in August, 1996. I settled in the Groton area.
Bill
