Well, this is all a very nice insight to the “why” regarding the price difference. Thanks!
I failed to point out the different labor costs between Chinese and Japanese citizens that are of course, passed on to the consumer. Thanks for noting the obvious.
Perhaps if Tamiya does build factories in China and the costs are lowered they might indeed return to the 1/35th paying field.
Let’s hope so, eh? [:D]
I am very happy with Tamiya. They aren’t putting out as many models as they have in the past, but unlike DML, Trumpeter, AFV Club etc., they have a line of planes, cars, RC stuff and accessories to help us build kits. IMO their quality and engineering are heads and shoulders above the other companies. I do wish they would increase their kit output (new T-62 or Centurion, please!!). I’m not too interested in 1/48th kits, but I hope the new line of products does well enough for Tamiya that they put out a few more 1/35th kits a year. Just my [2c] on this topic.
Very good point, Erik! I think some armor modellers tend to forget that there are other genres out there. Tamiya just released a beautiful new 1/32 F-16, and have recently released the battleships Missouri and New Jersey (modern) in 1/700 scale, as well as new autos and motorcycles. Tamiya doesn’t just produce armor! Good point about accessories, too.
To be fair, Trumpeter also produces a pretty wide variety of ships, aircraft, and autos, and Dragon has some nice aircraft, too. AFV Club, as the name obviously implies, only does armor.
I am currently building a 1/35 Panther G(early) from Tamiya and am quite impressed. It has the gun mounting in the turret, and other details I didn’t expect. The level of detail is higher than the DML 1/35 Night fighting Panther G(late).Allen
The licensing issue is likely to get hotter before it goes away. I agree with those protesting that military hardware vendors have already been paid vast sums of public funds, so they shouldn’t stick it to us yet again.
On the other hand, I suppose I have to concede that auto, civil air, science fiction and other private enterprises are entitled to charge a fee for any use of their “intellectual property”, whether we like it or not.
I hope we never see the day when exclusive contracts are executed to prevent competition for a model subject, but I also realize that anyone with the authority to license a product probably has the authority to make it exclusive.
I’m also keeping my fingers crossed that the aftermarket companies don’t end up on the hit lists of big corporations because they manufacture parts without licenses.
If the lawyers and bean-counters mess up a hobby that holds and represents their products in favoriable lights, I think i’ll change my hobby to making voodoo dolls… of lawyers and bean counters.
Tally ho
Yes absolutely they have. I have always built Tamiya kits from the begining, but lately i am very dissapointed. I have been buying more models from Dragon, whih makes me sad, because no one can live up to Tamiyas old standard.
I only buy Tamiya’s older kits. Any new kits are Dragon all the way for me.
Mike
Interesting stuff. I guess I kind of shrug off the small(purely my opinion)drop in Tamiya’s kits. Compared to some other companies qualities that have declined to the point of tears,i.e. Monogram aircraft. Also,I have bought a couple of kits mail order from Maquette that have filled my swear jar!! I still look to Tamiya for kits to build and are usually happy when compared to formentioned offerings[2c]
I am not too worried about the changes in the lineup of Tamiya.
Companies need to re-align themselves from time to time in order to keep making profits. Tamiya most likely decided that a change of direction would be better for them.
Like it or not that’s the way it is.
Tamiya or anyone for that matter, would have to pay a very hefty and obscenely high licensing fee to maintain an exclusivity for a particular product. What hasn’t been considered is how much these fees are. No one to my knowledge has come out yet and said how much they pay for these licensing deals so it is a bit premature to look up for falling bits of sky and expect kit costs to skyrocket as a result. They may only be a few cents each piece. Or it may be one large license of usage fee that we may not see reflected in the price.
THere are a few changes in legislature over the past few years that have changed the playing field in regards to licensing and royalty costs. One was a trade agreement by the DoD and its contractors. It basicly allows the government to use technology developed as a result of its rfb’s and contractor developed war toys. (i.e. if Lockheed Martin develops a new anti missile system for its fighter planes while under contract, the govt, can take that and use it as it sees fit, for example to outfit airliners) They can also share in patents and trademarking (previously unallowed by govt employees) in return for those rights of usage. The second was congress telling the DoD and its children (army, marines, airforce and navy)to go out and find ways of making money and becoming more cost effective (to try and recoupe some money rather than just spend it) this has manifested itself in various ways and includes identifiable marketing and product familiarity. This means that units can trademark, copyright and license their unit and divisional insignia. Meaning that if Tamiya uses a particular unit insignia or logo on their decals then they will have to pay a royalty fee if it has been trademarked.
While Tamiya may not be as active in the armor market, they still put out a good product and some of their classics are still just that. Classics. Though some of their offerings have issues to say the least, few companies these days are as prolific as Tamiya was and all have issues with something. There shoud be some sort of effort put into model building. Thats why its called model building, not model assembling.
Diffiernt companies offer different things, and despite the harbringers of modeling doom and their new boogey men (licensing, intellectual property, copyrights, etc.) we are in a modeling golden age. Never have the variety of scales and offerings been as many as they are now. You have several compaines now offering excellent kits and the aftermarket industry flourishes. Asopposed to Tamiya being a giant and others being faltering mortals. Asgard has gotten crowded these days and companies like Trumpeter, DML, Tamiya, Tasca, AFV Club, Hasgewa and more are offering some very nice packages. I can’t wait till some of the others try and play catch-up to these guys and the selsction will be enormous. I look forward to whats comming not at the storm clouds that are really dust clouds being kicked up by a stampeding herd, but whats next and how much better its going to get.
Modeling is a frivolous pastime using expendable income. If it gets more expensive, folks will pony up because they want to continue to build and be offered more. If they can’t, they’ll buy the older kits and upgrade those through skill and hard work and put their modeling time to good use. They’ll see a way around any hurdle that is put in front of them.
IMHO Tamiya’s quality has not gone down but has gone up. Tamiya is still better than that of Dragon and Academy. I think the main issue is that there is not many new releases from them lately and J-hulk has very well explained the probable reason.
While they have opened a plant here in the Philippines I still don’t see their prices going down to Dragon’d level. The factory workers’ wage levels here in the Philippines are still much higher than those from China.
When you look at the quality of a Tamiya kit, you need to think of what the competition had when the Tamiya kit was released. They have always been the cream of the crop for the time they were released. For us old timers, how many of you remember when the Tamiya motorized SU100 was first released? It was a good kit for the time. Now , well it would not sell if rereleased due to the quality demanded by todays releases.
First post
In my mind it is fairly irrelevant where in the world the kit is manufactured as there are only a few cents worth of plastic in each one. The big cost is in the development and tooling costs. I could see the tooling costs for a complex kit around $100K+ and this needs to be recovered somewhere. This design and tooling work is unlikely to be sent to countries with cheaper labour as I’m sure Mr Tamiya is proud of being Japanese and using Japanese skills.
I agree that Tamiya makes some of the best engineered kits on the market, but Dragon with their cheap labor and extra additives have just beaten them to the modelers wallets. For me, it’s going to take something special to get my money. I will admit that I have been picking some of their kits cheap on online sales. I hope that they can get back in the 1/35 market, because as us consumers know…competition is healthy for the hobby.
Maybe I am in the minority but the cost of the kit is not that important to me. I don’t have lots of free time to build kits. I may build two a year. I am more focused on who makes the best kit of the vehicle I am looking for. I don’t want inaccurate moldings or poor fits. I can see where cost would be an issue if I built 15 kits a year.
What’s the wisdom problem? What should Tamiya do at this point – how much 1/35th is there to tap into? With lots of competition, it makes decent sense for them to explore a new scale, particularly a smaller one. 1/48th has been an alternate scale for years, and people who love it from the Aurora and Bandai years have been clamoring for new kits. Resin kits in 1/48th go for top dollar and sell well. Tamiya can bring its engineering mastery to this smaller scale in kits that are as nice as their 1/35th scale ones (or so they say – I haven’t built one yet). And on top of that they are starting off fresh and doing things modelers have asked for for years – assymetrical Tiger turret, various fixes to the Sherman, etc. etc.
Success in business does not come from trying to stay competitive in a scale in which someone just released … what? … the twentieth Tiger I kit? Success in business comes from making new markets.
To be honest I am not sure what has hit the modeling hobby in the last few years.
Been kinda doing the private thing for a few years and lost touch with the standard plastic model crowd.
The main difference I see now is the wide use of AM parts that was not so common some years back.
Simply reading through the forums here I keep stumbling over threads as follows
“What kit of x is the best and what AM parts are available for it”.
Hmmm, shouldn’t you first get the kit and see if it even needs AM parts??
The modeler today seems to have quiet a bit of money to spend on the hobby(even though they moan about kit prices), as they buy plenty of AM parts often exceeding the price of the kit itself, got plenty of tools, etc.
So kits should be cheap and top-notch so that they can afford more AM parts??
Sorry, does not compute in my head.
To me it appears that the hobby has changed a lot when AM parts seem to be more important the actual kit.
Now some of the companies seem to gather for this trend, whereas others either seem to have missed the wagon or don’t care going that route.
Still confused.
Do people actually want Tamiya to produce more kits or are the happy with Dragon and company and will not buy a Tamiya kit anyway??
Okay, I regret the use of the word wisdom. I should have stated something more like marketing strategy. I do concur with you, 1/48 is kind of an open market right now and since Tamiya can’t fiscally compete like they used to in 1/35, it seems the logical direction for them to go. I guess as and old supporter of Tamiya, I just wish they could continue like they used to in 1/35. Fortunately, us modelers have other options. Okay I’m out of this topic now. [;)]