New ones (to me) keep popping up here and there (mostly Ebay) and I have no idea which ones are real and which ones are fictitious.
A web search for the “Cap Horn” returned no results.
Is anyone keeping a tally?
Thanks.
These I know for sure. I have them in my stash.
1/150 scale Cape Horn,Pamir,Preussen,Grande Hemine,Le Glorieux,Le Phenix and The Americo Vespucci. I believe there was a couple more at that scale but I don’t remember the names. Then theres groups at 1/200 scale,1/100 scale 1/75 scale, and 1/50 scale. I’ll look tomorrow I have a full catalog somewhere in my files.Hope that helps.
Rod
Thanks Rod, I also know of the Passat but that’s the extent of it for me.
Add “Le Superbe” to that list too[:)]
Richard
Here’s a couple more 1/150 scale that I found. L’Alcyon and L’ Amphitrite. They did a few in 1/100 and more in 1/200 and one the La Belle Etoile in 1/250 scale. The catalog list the Nina and Pinta at 1/75 scale. But the Santa Maria at 1/90.The funny thing is the Conqusitador is listed as 1/75 but Heller used the Santa Maria hull for this kit. The scales on most of these aren’t close but they are still fun to build.
Rod
I’m not one of Heller’s biggest fans (though I think its best sailing ship kits - e.g., the Victory and La Reale - are among the best ever produced). And I certainly can’t claim to have kept track of the seemingly endless issues and reissues. But I think I do remember that the one Heller labels Cape Horn (or was it “Cap Horn”; I don’t remember) was in fact a reissue of one of the company’s latter-day German steel windjammers - either the Pamir/Passat (those two really were near-identical sisters, so the use of the same parts for the two kits wasn’t incorrect) or the Preussen (which was the only five-masted full-rigged ship every built anywhere, so any release of that kit under a different name would be totally spurious).
Heller was utterly notorious for squeezing the maximum number of kits out of a set of molds. Some of its kits - especially in the company’s early days - were reissues of foreign ships under completely phony French names. Perhaps the ultimate example was the apppearance of the old Aurora Cutty Sark in a Heller box with the name…welll, something French that I’ve forgotten. I believe a number of old Pyro sailing ships got Frenchified the same way.
here the link to their website. http://www.heller.fr/en/catalogue.html
you can download the catalog and see what they currently produce.
John very true Heller did a lot of reissues. Revell was also very notorius very that too during the seventies and eighties. The cost of new molds and the lack of sales was the main reason these companies would either just put them in a different labeled box and reissue them under a different title. This made it look like new models were coming out to public.They also would change a few parts and do like the Cutty Sark-Thermopylae-Pedro Nunes conversion from one hull mold.
Fact in the last 10/15 years the only companies that have come out with new sailing ship kits are Trumpeter and Zvezda.Zvezda recently has been repoping old Heller and Revell molds. That again is because of the cost. Put it in a new box with different title and buyers think its new kit. Sorry I got a way from the subject.
Rod
considering the more “modern” ships of the 20th century or late 19th, I am pretty sure that Heller made the following in 1/150:
-Pamir German four-masted barque, sunk by storm in the 50s
-Passat, sister to above but without sails, still existing as a museum ship
-Gorch Fock II three-masted barque, the one that still sails with the Bundesmarine totay
-Preussen, as mentioned, five-masted full-rigged ship
-Cap Horn, five-masted barque. This one is a cash-in on Preussen as it depicts a totally fictional ship by simply changing the Preussen rig.
-Amerigo Vespucci, three-masted Italian training ship built in 1931 afaik.
-smaller, but fitting to the line of “modern” sailing ships, is Amphritite, a 1890s-three-mast barquentine which was changed to schooner and is now still operating for a German training or youth association. Colour changed to spiffy natural wood overall, I have seen the vessel in 1997 when she was in Helgoland Harbour and got a load of Beck´s beer. Amphitrite´s scale is sometimes stated 1/200 in catalogues, but 1/150 seems corrcet.
Heller made three Amphitrite-“half-sisters” to capitalize on the hull parts: steam Yacht “La Fauvette”, “LÁlcyon” two-mast slaver chaser and 1/250 for-masted barque “Belle Etoile”. All of those can be considered purely fictional with the latter being downright ridiculous in utilizing a yacht type hull for a really big sailing ship.
All of these kits are (with the exception of the “spinn-offs” of course) very well made and look very accurate and authentic. Some feature full rigging details (at least Pamir and Passat), some don´t. My only complaint is that there is no hull plating below the waterline and that the deck planking is in fact too wide for the scale, but this is a common fault through all ages of plasic ships including the latest 1/350 warships. They just don´t learn it.
The old Cutty Sark model was in the Heller Catalogue as “Epervier”. In the early 80s I was one of the misguided buyers who thought they had bought a french vessel, but upon opening the box I quickly realized that I had a Cutty Sark in front of me.
The “renamed reissue” has, as millard suggests, been a big component of the plastic sailing ship kit game for a long time. For example, the big, three-foot-long Revell kits have long been generally regarded as sort of the centerpieces of the plastic sailing ship kit world. I’ve lost track of just how many names those kits have appeared under, but there actually were only three different ones: the Cutty Sark, Kearsarge, and Constitution. The last of those was originally released (according to Dr. Graham’s book) in 1965 (that’s 44 years ago). Revell started the “renamed reissue” as early as 1960, when it reboxed its 1/96 Cutty Sark under the name Thermopylae. (The real Cutty Sark and Thermopylae looked quite similar from a distance - but that’s about it.)
Revell’s first sailing ship, the 1/192 Constitution, first appeared in 1956; the most recent one from the U.S. part of the company (i.e., not including the several nice releases from Revell Germany) was the excellent little Viking ship, initially released in 1977 - 32 years ago. The company has been out of the sailing ship kit business considerably longer than it was ever in it.
I’ve often wondered how the other parts of the scale modeling would react if the manufacturers treated them the way sailing ship enthusiasts have been treated for the past 40 years. What would the aviation enthusiasts think, for instance, if a kit manufacturer slapped some different decals on its B-17 and called it a B-52? (Heck, one’s called a “Flying Fortress” and the other’s called a “Stratofortress”; how many people will really know the difference?) That’s the rough equivalent of what Revell did when it repackaged most of the components of its H.M.S. Bounty in a box with the name “H.M.S. Beagle” on it.
No point in getting on that particular soap box again; sorry.
A resource for this kind of thing that few people here seem to be aware of is found at:
http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/shiprevs.html
The reviewers have attempted to list and review if possible every plastic and resin ship kit ever made. It is a volunteer site that I have contributed reviews to myself. It is quite useful for this kind of inquiry. WS
Thanks everyone, I was interested mostly in the Cap Horn since there’s one showing up in Ebay, and I’ll think about reconverting it to a Preussen.
I just tripped over this thread and thought that I would add something even now. The Heller “Cap Horn” was simply an attempt to get more mileage of their excellent kit of the Preussen. Unfortunately, no five-masted barque existed named “Cap Horn”. However, the German Flying P Line did have a vear sister to the Preussen, a five-masted barque named Potosi. With a little research, one can build a reasonably accurate Potosi from this kit. I have started doing just that. I will keep everyone informed and post photos if I can ever figure out how to do so.
Bill
Post photos? Super simple.
I will PM you.
Ditto Bill!
An oldie but goodie thread. I just saw an old Heller1/150 La Grande Hermine for sale. It reminded me of this FSM post that I too had “tripped over” and I figured maybe I could chime in to help complete the tally of Heller 1/150 Sailing Ship kits. Folks, let me know if I have missed or misstated anything and I will edit accordingly.
Heller 1/150 kits:
Amerigo Vespucci 1/150 Heller, IMAI
Amphitrite 1/150 Heller (Same hull as Alycon,Favette, Belle Etoile)
Cap Horn 1/150 Heller (Preussen)
Capricorne 1/150 Heller
Corsair (Le Corsair) 1/150 Heller (Tartan)
Fauvette 1/150 Heller (Same hull as Alycon Belle Etoile, Amphitrite)
Glorieux 1/150 Heller (Similar to Heller Le Superbe-sister ship)
Gorch Fock 1/150 Heller (Revell)
Grand Hermine 1/150 Heller
Mayflower 1/150 Heller (actually larger than 1/150) (Revell Mayflower?)
Pamir 1/150, Heller (Revell) same hull as Passat
Passat 1/150 Heller
Phenix 1/150 Heller ( Same Hull as Sirene)
Preussen1/150 Heller (Cap Horn)
Sirene 1/150 Heller (Le Phenix)
Sphinx 1/150 Heller (Pyro Harriet Lane?)
Superbe 1/150 Heller (same hull as Glorieux)
Tartan 1/150 Heller (Also released as Corsair)
Other kits sold as 1/150 scale:
Alexander Von Humbolt 1/150 Revell
Batavia 1/150 Revell
Black Pearl 1/150 Revell kit # 05499 (Also Ghost Ship kit #05435)
Cutty Sark 1/150 Pyro, Academy
Donau 1/150 Modelist (Heller mould?) 20” (like Heller Amerigo Vespuchi)
Eagle, USCGC 1/150 Heller (Revell)
Kaiwo Maru 1/150 Imai, Aoshima
Napoleon 1/150 IMAI
Nippon Maru 1/150 IMAI, Lee, Aoshima
Oryol 1/150 Ark Models, (Ogonek?)(Possibly same as 1/200 kit)
Prince 1/150? MPC #1402-200 (UPC?)
Susquehanna 1/150 IMAI, Monogram, Aoshima (Imai Moulds) 24”
Thermopylae 1/150 (1/146) Revell 24” simplified build (Cutty Sark)
Wasa (Vasa) 1/150 Revell
There are other kits that measure out to an approximate 1/150 including a Monogram Constitution and United States (IMAI mold), some 1/144 listed kits, and quite possibly, Lindbergs “1/130” Pirate ships.
I am sure Manufacturers would love to know what scale sells the best for sailing ship kits. Is 1/200 too small to rig and 1/100 too expensive to buy? 1/150 fits right in the middle; not so big it’s difficult to display, not so small that it looks like a toy. Any thoughts?
Nino
I’m with you, Nino. I consider 150 a great scale. Once in awhile I get a 1:100 kit, maybe once in a decade. I think the price on those went up steeper than inflation. Plus, I don’t like to buy that many 2000+ piece kits any more often than that. I have been working on my Soleil Royal for 15 years now! I built the Superbe 1:150 in about four to five months. Great kit.
Thanks Don.
The old Aurora (Smer,Atlantis,Modelist) Black Falcon also seems a probable 1/150. I also need to re-look at the Lindberg Wappen von Hamburg (Capt Kidd Pirate ship) again. Originally I thought it worked out to somewhere around 1/133 to 1/143 scale. Various reports and plans I have seen seem to list it a various lengths of 40m, 44m, 48m. I considered them to probably represent BP, WL, & OA respectively. Could be I have it wrong and the scale is really closer to 1/150 much like the Lindberg La Flore (Jolly Roger/Flying Dutchman). I always hoped these Lindberg kits could be a good scale match for some of Hellers 1/150 scale “74’s”.
And I too have a Soleil Royal, unbuilt. It’s in the Attic. I look at it every Christmas season when I get the decorations. I don’t fear “Building it”; I dread painting it. The Professor never convinced me it was not worth building even if it did have “issues”. It is too beautiful a model ship. And 15 years on it sounds 'bout right for me too once I get it down.
Nino
I know the late Dr. Tilley mentioned this multiple times, but I’ ll repeat it here: The Gorch Fock and the USCGC Eagle do not share the same hull. The Eagle is about 20 feet longer. This makes converting the GF kit a big project, if you want an accurate Eagle. The Heller kit (and the currently available Revell Germany Gouch Fock re-issue) are models of the Gorch Fock, not the Eagle.
RCboater,
You are absolutely correct about the Gorch Fock/USCG Eagle model kits.
My compilation in the earlier post shows Heller’s Gorch Fock is “Listed” as 1/150 and as for the USCG Eagle it is one of the kits I listed as “… kits sold as 1/150 scale:” At 1/150 scale the USCG Eagle should be 1.6" longer overall than Gorch Fock but it’s not.
The difference : The Gorch Fock/Tovarisch(“Companion”) is 269’ OA whereas the Horst Wessel/USCGC Eagle is 295’ OA. It is unfortunate that current scale models of the USCG Eagle are wrong having been based on misunderstood plans.
I recently acquired the old IMAI 1/200 USCGC Eagle. I also have the latest Plans from a FOIA request to the Coast Guard. I’m in the process of comparing the mast placement and deck “Furniture” plans to the IMAI model. I will keep FSM updated with my findings. I rather expect the IMAI Eagle will turn out to be a correct depiction of the USCG Eagle although I currently have a concern with the listed scale of 1/200. The actual scale of the kit may need to be confirmed by additional modelers.
I did a small edit to my list. I added the Revell 1/150 Vasa. I recall an old FSM post of a quick Comparison of the Airfix 1/144 Vasa and the Revell 1/150 Wasa. The Revell hull was said to be slightly smaller than the Airfix hull. Too bad that the Airfix kit was not closer to the Revell “1/150” kit. I would like to have been be able to swap a few parts.
Nino
Measuring sailing ship kits to determine scale is really difficult.
Dimensions on the box don’t mean much.
Probably the most dependable