Could someone explain to me how gun designations work? Particularly WWII German guns.
For example, “12.8cm PaK 44 L/61”. The “cm” part is obviously the caliber/bore of the gun. I understand the “PaK” designation (or the equivalent) to be the specific gun design/version of that particular gun caliber. If all of that is true, what is the “L/” designation?
Thanks for any light you can shed on this!
L/xx refers to barrel length. But I do not know specifically how the numbers work. Just higher number = longer barrel.
PaK (Panzerabwehrkanone) means “antitank gun”.
Right, 128mm is the bore of the gun.
L/(number) is the caliber of the gun. Unlike small arms where caliber indicates the bore size,for artillery guns it’s the ratio of length to bore. In other words 128mm L/61 gives a barrel length of 7.808 meters.
That’s a big one.
PaK means PanzerabwehrKanone, anti-tank gun, from my copy of Ballantine’s the guns 1939-1945 by Ian V. Hogg. L is the length in calibers of the barrel from this explanation in Wiki:
The “L56” in the designation is a traditional measurement for artillery pieces. “L” refers to the length of the interior of a gun tube (or “barrel”) in proportion to the size of its bore, an important metric in determining a guns relative performance for its bore size. The inside diameter of a gun tube is considered one caliber. The designation “L56” means the barrel is 56 calibers long, or 56 times 88 mm = 4,928 mm; almost 5 metres (16 ft). Thus, it is not an absolute unit of measurement; it is a proportionate one, and thus is rarely used while considering overall dimensions. Rather, it is used to denote how much velocity a gun will generate for its bore size. The longer the tube is in relation to its bore, the higher the muzzle velocity it can generate. A longer gun barrel allows the expanding gas from the shell’s charge to act on the projectile longer than a short barrel, imparting it more velocity and force. For the Tiger II’s 88 mm Kwk 43 L/71, 71 times 88 mm is 6248 mm, over 6 metres (20 ft) long. Shorter tubes are most useful for indirect fire, such as howitzers or infantry support. For anti-armor purposes, a long to very-long tube is needed, to generate the necessary velocity.
If I may, I have a related question. How does the British system of XX pounder translate into caliber and other diemnsions? Thanks.
John
The British system was based on the approximate weight of the projectile.
2 pounder - 40mm
6 pounder - 57mm
17 pounder - 76.2mm
Note also, for German designations:
Flak = “Fleiger abwehr Kanone” - anti-aircraft gun
KwK = “Kampfwagen Kanone” - fighting vehicle gun
20 pounder- 84mm
Thanks everybody! The “L/” designation was really confusing me.
Now I just have to figure which aftermarket ammo set is correct for the 12.8…
I think this is the right one: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/226095-rb-model-35p10-12-8cm-pak-44-l-61-ammunition
Also Alliance Model Works 1:35 German WWII 12.8cm Pzgr 43 Ammo Pack (5) LW35071 – I just saw a listing on Amazon for $13 w/free shipping
Isn’t that the Jagdtiger variant though?
The original posters question was for the Jagdtiger gun, no?
I was thinking on this, seems like an improbable idea to drive around with a 4" bore 25 foot long tube.
The OP (me) was originally posting about the 12.8cm PaK 44 Waffentrager’s gun.
And according to Bish, the gun on the Waffentrager would not have been the L/61 (The gun on the Sturer Emil) but rather the L/55 (the gun mounted on the Jagdtiger). That means that the ammo I originally linked to would be incorrect for my build, since it’s L/61.
Good point about the differing ammo rounds. I did some quick research and found the following: For the 12.8cm FLAK, the cartridge was 96.3cm in length, for the L/61 was 82.8cm and for the more common L/55 was 86.9cm
Thanks for finding me that Alliance Modelworks ammo kit! It looks like I’ll need it.
So, check this out, the shells look different:
The real 12.8cm pak44 L/55 casings don’t have any taper, so the brass ones are correct in this regard. Also, the brass projectiles have the correct protruding tracer on the base, (for the AP rounds at least).
I’d go with the brass.
Although, I think the driving bands on the plastic ones look better…[*-)]
Ok, nice! Though I don’t actually know if I’ll show the shells visible anyway. Maybe I’ll scratchbuild sone kind of ammo storage box.