Hey guys, I know your a wealth of knowledge about tanks. I’m a modeler, but also a sim junkie. I’m helping to put together a campaign for the days after D-Day, June-July 1944, for an online flight sim war. I’m trying to determine, as accurately as I can, what the make-up of the german tanks forces were percentage wise. From what I have been able to find, the Panzer IV, Panther, Tiger and King Tiger were all present. Just from guessing, I would think that there would be very few King Tigers, a few more Tigers, a lot of Panthers and Panzer IVs. At least I’m hoping there are few King Tigers and Tigers because they are a freakin pain to take out.
If anyone could help me out to determine an approximate percentage of types of German tanks involved during this time, I would greatly appreciate it.
A great book to borrow/buy is Bernage’s “The Panzers and the Battle of Normandy”
Frankly there were lots of Sturmgeschutzen in theatre too. Don’t forget other SPGs like Nashorn, Marders and other tankhunters, other “Becker” conversions, old French tanks, etc. An odd Pz III even showed up.
This is a huge point. The germans had lots of other tanks besides the main ones.
Before June 12 there were no Tigers in combat in Normandy. The only things available were Pz Iv’s (Ausf G?, J and H), Stug III’s Ausf G earlys, various SPG’s and I think the Pz III command version (I’ll have to check on that one). All of these belonging to the 21st Pz division witch was near Sword Beach.
I have no idea on the situation of the panthers. Somebody else can fill you in on when they arrived.
Around June 12 the bulk of the panzers were showing up. I believe that Pz IV’s, jagdpanzers, Jagdpanthers, Panthers, and Tigers were the bulk.
The King tiger arrived in small quantities in August I think, but it could be Late July.
The 21st Pz Division also had older tanks like the PzKpfw IV Ausf C. Prior to D-Day, it was one of the low priority units stationed in France equipped with older stuff.
Thanks for the info guys, very interesting. I have a feeling the axis guys are trying to get in a few more Tigers than they should and those things are a real pain to take out from a plane. You darn near have to skip a bomb underneath them to take them out. Rockets definately won’t do the trick on them. I can take out Panzers and Panthers all day long, but the Tiger, especially King Tiger, are tough. Therefore, I want to ensure historical accuracy and not allow them any more than I need to.
Thats odd … I mean from an aircraft you would hit it on the top right ?? and both the Tiger I and Tiger II had 25 mm thick hull roofs.
As far as I remember only s.Pz.Abt 503 had Tiger II in the normandy area. They arrived a bit late from Paris where they had been detrained. They saw action in the Caen sector and got hit pretty hard by the bombardments leading up to the allied assult on the city. The book “The combat history of schwere panzer abteilung 503” has a lot of interesting details about this.
That site had exactly what I needed, colo_artist, thanks! It confirmed what I suspected. The Tiger made up only about 6% of the german armor during Normandy, and the King Tiger less than 1%. The bulk was the Panzer IV (41%), Panther (30%) and the StuG III/StuH III (20%).
Unfortunately, that site didn’t have the allies order of battle for their armor. Anyone have a good source for allied armor numbers during normandy?
If you drop a 1000 lb or maybe even a 500 lb right smack on top of them, it will probably take them out. Unfortunately, that’s easier said than done. In fact, to me it is easier to skip a bomb underneath them. I know it sounds like a strange tactic, but it’s easier to judge.
The 5" Armor Piercing HVAR rockets will take them out, but they were just becoming operational and were very limited in numbers. None of the aircraft we have available use them. The Tempest uses 3" “60 lbers”. The P-38 has 5", but not the armor piercing. And the P-47 used the 4.5" tube rockets. If I hit them with enough rockets or in the right place (which I have yet to determine with consistency), I can sometimes get them. But this is compared with the Panzer IV and Panthers. One hit from a rocket will take them out. A bomb only has to land close to take them out also.
ok after going through my Tiger books ( Trail of the tigers by Ron Klages was particulary helpful ) I have some facts about Tigers in Normandy. 4 units had Tigers in Normandy: s.Pz.Abt 503. PzKp. (Fkl) 316 s.SS.Pz.Abt 101 s.SS.Pz.Abt 102 s.SS.Pz.Abt 101 and 102 entered the battle in June 1944 at full strength ( 45 tanks each ) all of them Tiger I’s. PzKp ( Fkl) 316 had 3 Tiger I and 5 Tiger II’s in June but we know for a fact that the Tiger II’s were left behind when the unit moved to the normandy front and the Tiger I’s probably remind behind as well. s.Pz.Abt 503 arives at the front on July 7th with 33 Tiger I’s 2nd and 3rd company and 12 Tiger II’s in 1st company.The last of the Tiger I’s are left at Vimoutiers on August 20th. After having been decimated by aerial bombings 3rd company is refitted with Tiger II’s ( 14 in all - 12 with “porsche” turrets and 2 with production turrets ) and rejoins the fight west of Paris. They lose the last of the Tiger II’s on August 24th near Amiens So in all you have no more than about 120 -130 Tiger I’s and no more than 26 Tiger II’s in the Normandy area at any given time. However many of them would have been out of action due to maintenance problems or combat loses.