I’m sure this has been asked before and I googled (w/no luck) but why have I seen the order of markings (L-R) reversed sometimes and not others (e.g.,1st Hurrie RFE/ERF & 2nd LED/LED)?
and
UHH…I think someone goofed on the 1st Hurricane…2nd one is correct IMHO…I`m no expert in A/C markings but looks like someone did a "mirror " image on the 1st one.
Rule No.1: Don’t use another model as reference material.
Unless you find a photo to the contrary, the application on Hurricane No.2 would be considered correct. Squadron code (double letters) followed by aircraft code (single letter.)
I figured that was the case and wanted to get the skinny from the knowledge base here at FSM forum, thanks schnord.
Okay… came across these doing research on “Miss Marilyn II” P-51. WHAT’S UP?? [*-)]
Different Air Force compared to the pics above, The RAF convention was to put the squadron codes to the left of the roundel and the individual aircraft letter to the right (on both sides). Variations are known to have occurred, so as stated above, check reference photos if available…
Note that the aircraft in the pic is a restoration, and may have been marked this way for aesthetic reasons.
What’s up is you’re in great luck if you want to build a model of this private warbird. No guesswork here. If only they shot pictures like this in WW II
Actually this would have been pretty standard with AAF types. Letters codes were applied around a factory positioned national insignia. The two letter (or letter and number in some cases) squadron code would not fit behind the star on the right side so it has to go in front. (Even before the bars were added to the stars on P-47s in the 8th AF for instance, the X * XX positioning on the right seemed to apply.) This kind of positioning on an RAF type was rare, but not unknown. You see it on some Typhoons and Tempests for example.
The X * XX sequence on the left side such as that first Hurricane model? Never seen that on a real airplane.
Ahh…[I], so the location of the national insignia (which I assume would be standard on all planes of the same make, at a similar production time) and the space it provies fore & aft of it, determines what order the squadron code/aircraft identifier is placed. Just curious, do you know if this is the case with the WWII erea MMII (before I research it)? Thanks for the replies guys.
As far as the RAF is concerned the Air Ministry instructions, as contained in AMOs (Air Ministry Orders), only had one rule, that the squadron code and individual letter be separated by the roundel. They also stated that the squadron code could be placed before or after the roundel. Any rule as to their placement has been invented based on observation. A very common failing that leads to much bunkum and claptrap.
So RFE and ERF are both equally valid but RFE or ERF are not allowed. In practice the order they were placed came down to whim. Sometimes it is not known what order they were on both sides of the fuselage and it can only be guessed at from what is seen on other aircraft in the same squadron at the same time. However, it is possible to find examples where aircraft in the same squadron differed in the placement of the codes and it is also common to find that squadrons placed the codes in different ways at different times.
The model of the 303 Squadron Hurricane is incorrect. At the time of the BoB it was the custom of the squadron for the squadron code, RF, to be placed in front of the roundel on the port side and behind on the starboard. That is, they always read RF*E from left to right on both sides of the fuselage.
When the RAF first started using squadron and groupu codes, the left side was done with the group/sdn “O” Acft letter, and on the right side, it went Group, “O” sdn/ Acft letter… Then, after some time in mid- 1941, it was changed on the right to “mirror” the grouping on the left, or Group/Squadron “O”-Indvidual letter.
The USAF reflected this practice of always having the group and Sdn letters in front of the star, with the individual aircraft getting the letter aft of the tar, ALTHOUGH, it took some time for the USAAF groups to get it right, and some aircrft were mis-labled… Same goes for units that had alpha-numeric codes (like E2C or G4Y)
So it depends on what aircraft you’re modeling, and WHEN you are doing it… But generally, you’re safest with the Group/Sdn letter in front of the star/roundel, and the aircraft letter aft… I side-step the issue altogether by using notional (made up) group & squadron codes unless I HAVE to do it correctly for a commision build, or a specific pilot that is itntegral to the dioras story-line…
Good heavens. My education continues.
LOL, Another question, what is the smaller number, usually located aft of the squad/individual craft near the tail?
The serial number…
BTW, I forgot to mention the othe RAF and Commonwealth AF oddity, that of the Wing Commander (AKA "The Wingco’) being allowed to use his personal initials in place of the Group/Squadron codes… ie; Douglas Bader (D * B), Robert Stanford-Tuck (RS * T), Johnny Johnson (JEJ) etc… Johnson had at least three Spitfires assigned to him over the course of his time as the Wingco, and they were so marked, but Johnson’s Mk XIVE had all three letters in front of the roundel on both sides., "JEJ…
All the Wingco markings were done on the starboard side the opposite way, with the first and middle initials aft of roundel, the last name initial in front.
Here’s a site that covers that stuff…
That’s right Hammer I forgot about that, the Revellogram Spitfire was decaled for Douglas Bader (who I had no idea who he was only 3 months ago [:$]).
The 31st FG USAAF also followed the Squadron CC and Group CC convention of allowing initials instead of squadron codes on their aircraft. You can see it on their Spits through the Mustangs.
Didn’t know that… Did they keep that practice up when they were transferred to the 15th AF or was it only with the 8th AF?
Not really. The placement of the codes seems to be more a matter of whim than how much space is available. Space, or lack of it, may have had an influence on some aircraft types and obviously if there was not enough space to fit the codes then certain ways of placing them were excluded. But usually even if there was a particular placement that was heavily favoured, someone, somewhere would do it a different way. Some twin-engine types such as the Boston/Havoc and Mitchell had the individual letter placed on the nose as there was not enough space on the rear fuselage to accommodate the codes in the required manner. This was proscribed in AMOs issued later in the war. On some aircraft the rules were ignored because they could not be followed.
Sometimes it took some effort to get the desired placement.
L5820/SH-F of 216 Squadron. Placement of the letters aft of the roundel was unusual but normal for this type.
12 Squadron at Wickenby chose not to follow the rules on their even though it was possible to place the codes as proscribed.
Why the individual letter was placed on the nose of this Mustang needs no explanation.
While this at first appears peculiar the codes are placed correctly. It is the roundel that is in an unusual position.
It would seem that coding an Airacobra posed something of a problem.
402 Squadron Spitfire Mk XVI with codes repositioned because of changes to the roundel location on low-back Spitfires. Compare with AE*T behind.
When the RAF mobilised, because of the Munich Crisis in September 1938, amongst other measures, national markings were toned down and unit markings removed. These latter were generally replaced by a two-letter combination identifying the unit, ie the squadron ‘code’.
Because of the need for secrecy in the identification of the allocation of codes to units, little documentation has survived and the only known list of unit codes for the period is contained in the unclassified Air Ministry Order A154/39 dated , which stated:
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It has been decided to adopt a standard system of identification marking on aircraft of operational squadrons throughout the service, at home and abroad, and on those items of equipment which are liable to be taken into the air.
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The system is to be adopted forthwith.
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No markings other than those described hereunder are to be permitted on operational units. Aircraft identification markings:
Type of Marking: National Marking
On the top surfaces of the wing tips: A blue ring surrounding a red centre
On both sides of the fuselage: A blue ring surrounding a red centre
On the lower surfaces of the wing tips: A blue ring surrounding a white ring and the latter surrounding a red centre
Code Letters: (to indicate squadrons and individual aircraft)
Two letters to indicate number of squadron: Either forward or aft of the national marking on both sides of fuselage. One letter to indicate individual aircraft: On the other side of the aircraft national marking on both sides of the fuselage.
Aircraft number:
The Air Ministry letter and number allocated to the aircraft: Underneath
the lower planes and at the rear end of the fuselage.
Squadron badge:
As approved by HM the King; as laid down in Air Ministry Orders
Note: Fighter aircraft:
(i) are not to carry the national marking on the lower surface of the
wing tips;
(ii) the lower surface of the starboard plane and half the undersurface of the fuselage is to be painted white. The corresponding port side is to be painted black.
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The code letters allotted to squadrons are shown at the appendix to this order. They are to be painted in grey paint (Stores Ref. 33B/157). The letters are to be 48 inches high and are to be made up of strokes 6 inches in width. Smaller letters are to be used only when the space available on the fuselage makes such a course unavoidable.
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Squadron badges may be carried if desired on aircraft but they must be removable at short notice without leaving any trace.
These ‘codes’ were first seen on or about 25 September 1938 although their application was, initially, patchy but gradually over the succeeding months, especially after new equipment arrived, they became more widely used such that by mid-1939, the aircraft of most home-based squadrons carried codes. Those squadrons that had initially been equipped soon began wearing unit codes on their Hurricanes and as further units we reformed or re-equipped, so they too were suitably adorned. As authorised in the Air Ministry Order, several did indeed also wear their squadron badge within the approved ‘spearhead’ frame.
The rules allow for four different placements for the codes. left to right:
Placement 1 – Port (left) ABC Starboard (right) ABC
Placement 2 – Port (left) CAB Starboard (right) ABC
Placement 3 – Port (left) ABC Starboard (right) CAB
Placement 4 – Port (left) CAB Starboard (right) ABC
Examples of placements 1,2,& 3 being used can easily be found. Placement 4 is elusive and may never have been used. However, often there are no photographs of both sides of an aircraft and it is possible that this placement has gone unnoticed.
“When the RAF first started using squadron and group codes, the left side was done with the group/sdn “O” Acft letter, and on the right side, it went Group, “O” sdn/ Acft letter… Then, after some time in mid- 1941, it was changed on the right to “mirror” the grouping on the left, or Group/Squadron “O”-Individual letter. “
This is precisely what I warned about in my first post. Inventing rules based on what is seen in the commonly published photographs.
There never was nor has there ever been anything called a Group Code in the RAF.
When the system of squadron codes and an individual letter was introduced there was a strong preference for single engine/seat fighter squadrons, Hurricanes and Spitfires, to adopt Placement 1. Perhaps this was because we read right to left in the west and there is a tendency to put the squadron code first and so the codes read AB*C left to right on both sides of the fuselage. However, there was more to the RAF than single engine/seat fighters and on other types of aircraft other placements were more popular. On twin engine types Placement 2 was often used; almost exclusively on although occasionally other placements can be found. Both Westland Whirlwind squadrons used Placement 2.
Placement 2 was a common choice on Blenheims, Hampdens, and also Fairey Battles as well as many other types of aircraft but it is easy to find examples of the other placements being used.
The main pre-war bomber-transport in the was the Valentia, here at Helwan in 1940 using what appears to be Placement 2.
Nor did single engine/seat fighter squadrons use Placement 1 exclusively. Some squadrons chose Placement 2. Perhaps some felt that the squadron codes should always be on the same side of the roundel.
80 Squadron Gladiator most likely using Placement 2.
213 Squadron Hurricane Mk I in mid-1939 showing what appears to be Placement 2.
247 Squadron were early users of Placement 2.
87 squadron first used Placement 1.
Later changing to Placement 1.
611 Squadron seemed to have favoured Placement 2.
“All the Wingco markings were done on the starboard side the opposite way, with the first and middle initials aft of roundel, the last name initial in front.“
Another example of inventing rules on the basis of a handful of well known examples.
Senior officers in the RAF, Wing Commander upwards, were allowed to use personal codes on their own aircraft. These most commonly took the form of the officer’s initials but not always. Aleksander Gabszewicz flew seven or eight Spitfires in succession, as Wing Commander and Group Captain, all coded SZG, the codes he used when CO of 316 Squadron. Likewise his friend Wing Commander Tadeusz Sawicz had his Spitfire coded SZK. Rank pennants were also often applied.
There were many variations on how these initials were applied.
In June 1944 Wing commander J M Checketts must have not known that there were ‘rules’ to be followed.
His next attempt was much better.
Use of personal codes by the USAAF was rare. Lt Col Fred M Dean commander of the 31st FG Gozo 1943.
With two letters, placing them each side of the roundel was popular. Wing Commander Dereck Kain.
Originally the Spitfire of Wing Commander Flying William A Douglas, Wing Commander Jaroslav Hlad’o flew it operationally from until 21st march 1945 with the same D*O code.
Wing commander Tomas Vybiral placed his letters behind the roundel.
As did fellow Czech Wing Commander Karel Mrazek.
Wing Commander Colin Gray.
Group Captain Tadeusz Nowierski.
Wing Commander S. Skalski.
Group Captain Tadeusz Rolski.
Wing Commander Jan Zumbach.
Many have gone on a futile search for a Polish officer with the initials ZW. The letters are in fact ŻW and the Mustang belonged to Wing Commander Walerian Żak.
Lt Col L A Wilmot (SAAF) found a different way.
Wing Commander George Clinton Keefer.
Johnson flew four Spitfires coded JEJ (five if you count JEJjr) as Wing Commander and Group Captain. Two were Mk XIVs, MV268 and this, his last known Spitfire, MV257.
Wing Commander Harold Bird-Wilson.
Wing Commander C.L.Green, coded C*G.
Air Vice Marshal L O Brown. The Spitfire carries an Air Vice Marshal’s pennant below the exhaust. Usually rank pennants were placed under the cockpit.
Group Captain D J Scott.
Wing Commander ‘Kit’ North-Lewis
Group Captain D E Gillam. Used ZZ instead of his intials.
Wing Commander J B Wray.
Wing Commander Flying F G Grant
Wing Commander Flying Bill Pitt-Brown. This is the same aircraft that Wing Commander Flying Charles Green used coded C*G.
Wing Commander J C Button. Note initials on the inner side of the wheel door, blanck and white propeller blades. Initials on the fuselage can be seen in the reflection in the puddle.
Wing Commander R A Berg.
Wing Commander R P ‘Bee’ Beamont’s other Tempest.
Wing Commander R W F ‘Sammy’ Sampson.
Wing Commander J F Edwards.
One aircraft was not enough for Group Captain J R Baldwin. One for bombs one for rockets.
Wing Commander Evan Mackie.
In theory Squadron Leaders were not allowed personal markings but occasionally one managed it. Squadron Leader James Storrar was one.
After promotion to Wing Commander.
Squadron Leader Graham Falconer used a diamond instead of a letter.
WOW! [:|] Thanks for the incredible amount of information antoni. It’s amazing to see all the variation in what real life situations call for and I’m sure those guys had to do things on the fly (no pun intended) given their circumstances.