The Japanese had armor?!? [;)] [(-D]
Here’s a twist for you… how cool would it be to see a large armored engagement between the Italians and the Japanese in WWII? [:O]
The Italians would have won that engagement
that was cold & cruel!!
gary
Im sorry if that was cold and cruel im just sayn they would have won the engagement because the Italians would usually be supplied with some German equipment. Where as the Japenese didnt get supplied with the German Tiger Tanks or Panzer IV’s. But from the what i’ve seen of Japenese armour they didnt really have alot.
The Italian armor units were usually supplied with tanks of their own design/make. German industry could hardly keep up with the needs of the Wehrmacht, let alone any of their satellite allies. In Africa, German units would be used to “corset” or “Stiffen” Italian units, but they did not give them Mk IIIs or Mk IVs. The Japanese actually fielded a respectable number of tanks, but most were kept in China or the Home Islands. In combat they were not used in large numbers except in a few places such as Saipan, Pelilu, and the Phillipines. I would put Japanese and Italian armor on par with each other. Not sure how they were automotively, but thin armor and main guns far more in line with pre war thinking. American and British designs fared well against them. Near the end for each country, both started to have more “modern” tank designs built and tested but never fielded in combat.Both gave brave showings in combat on occasion but were outmatched by their opponents. Both also had some interesting camo schemes and interesting unit markings displayed.
Stikpusher… (and anyone else who is interested).
Have a look at this link about Soviet Tank Aces i have put here. Some really cool stories about Soviet tank aces.
I like the ‘1 versus 43’ story. I don’t know how it would feel being inside a KV-1 after 135 hits. But i am sure your ears would be ringing for a week!!!..[%-)]
Enjoy!!! (lots of other good stuff too. check out the armoured trains!!)
Boomer…
…there’s a cool story in the Osprey book about the T-34/85 going into combat and running up against a column of Tiger II’s…(some of the first ever KT’s seen on the Eastern front)…the T-34 ambushed the column and knocked out about 4 of them w/ side-shots less than 250 meters away…the Soviet tanker recalled how his crew couldn’t tell for sure if their shots were hitting because the Tigers didn’t burn, so they could see no smoke…they kept pumping rounds into them until they did finally catch fire…
there’s a little phrase that often flows thru armored units, but I think it originated in armored cav units. It’s simply “turned to jello.” The concussion from four or five rounds in the turret area (assuming they were 75mm or 88mm) would have rendered the users of said tank useless. Maybe a hundred 20mm hits, but nothing in the 75mm range; even without penetration. I’ve seen a couple T-34’s knocked out, and a 75mm round from an M-41 will eat one up like a twelve year old kid and a big mac. Suspect we are learning from the Stalin Propaganda Ministery.
gary
not to be off topic but since we are talking about aces How many kills did you need to become a tank ace?
…I believe it is 5, just as with a/c…originally, in France during WW 1, it took 10 kills to be named ace, but I believe the US Air Corps lowered it because of the United States’ late entry into the war…
oh, i was expecting more like 15 for tank aces, thanks Manstein
…maybe so, but finding decent pics of any Japanese tanks is nearly impossible (insert your one good pic of a Japanese tank here)…compared to the volumes of pics available of other nation’s tanks, the Japanese did an extremely poor job of documenting the war from their perspective, and that isn’t limited to just armor, that includes ships, planes, etc…
I bet you could find lots of pics of Japanese tanks in Japan. What I mean is, they probably did a much better job of documenting their version of the war than you’ve seen, but you’d have to pull off a trip to Tokyo or Kyoto to see much of it.
I’m not so sure…I have tons of Japanese refs (Tamiya publishes a lot) and even they offer scant pics on their own subjects…
I don’t really perfer one over the other, but ya gotta put your Tigers next to Shermies just to show the state of affairs in 1944/45. German armor does look cool. Agreed, American armor is generally less asthetically interesting, but a Sherman has a charm all its own.
Semper Fi,
Chris
I’m not sure how you’re defining “satellite allies” but I’ve got a little side project going on, doing a bunch of Hungarian armor (mother’s side of the family). They were fielding Panzer IV’s (albeit the F1 model), Stug III Ausf. G’s, 38(t) Ausf. G’s, as well as Hetzers. I can see the 38(t)'s maybe being “disposable” by the Wechmacht, but the rest of that stuff has to be considered “front line” worthy equipment.
The stiffening that the Germans gave the Italians was more in the nature of heavy support weapons (heavy machine guns, light artillery, etc.) which the Italians lacked. Also, count all Italian units (infantry and armor) as “Brigade” strength even when they were called a “Division”. This is truer to their actual size. Italian armor units were a combined arms formation with organic artillery and infantry units. I am not familiar with Japanese armor doctrine and from what I do know, it seems that Japanese used their armor in small “penny packet” units. Did the Japanese have armor units that functioned at brigade or divisional level?
I would also say that the Italians would have the advantage over the Japanese in a “tank country” situation as they did develop an armor doctrine.
Mike T.
…the Germans depended fairly heavily on their axis satellites on the Eastern front until Stalingrad, in which the flanks held by the Romanians fell away and caused the envelopment of the German 6th Army…the Romanians were most numerous, followed by the Hungarians and Bulgarians…the Italians also contributed several divisions…and there was even a Spanish “volunteer” division to be had…for the most part these divisions were not up to front-line service and were relegated to holding static positions and patrolling rear areas…after Stalingrad they were slowly withdawn back to their home countries as Hitler was disgusted with their performance…
I would venture to say that most of this equipment was replaced by newer model vehicles in German units at the same time. Most of these were probably overhauled/rebuilt vehicles, which was also often seen in ‘second line’ German units. ( a situation often seen by post-war US National Guard units). My use of the term “satellite allies” is that these countries were brough along, one way or another, into the Russian Campaign. Their governements often were in power in deferrence of Nazi German power. While some of them had old standing border disputes with the Soviets/Russia, they had different motivations for the campaign. Germany was the prime director, and their allies fought under German direction in the overall campaign. Not to denigrate the bravery or fighting ability of the individual soldiers involved.
Must admit the Germans built the most deadly looking armor ever. Ami and Ruski looks exactly like what it is mass produced. Camo on anything WWII German is some of the best Ive ever seen. Theres probably a few reasons why they got better at it. Check out the mass produced part for starters. And then theres that color thing. Olive drab. What does that tell ya? Now how about Panzer grey?