i know a video game is no solid reference what so ever. I did some of my own research, and discoverd normandy was the number 1 dump for obsolete axis war vehicles or captured allied ones, or anything else not reliable enough to send out in the front line. I also discovered, while they were not constantly used as reliable support, multiple Panzer II’s were used in normandy 1944 wherever a stronger vehicle could not be spared, often on scouts/patrolling or just sent to the front line, hardly expected to do any damage, but better than nothing. According to multiple websites, panzers II’s could even be found in 1945, though in very rare circumstances, and in terible condition, as they had been discontinued, and many even modified with other types of turrets mounted on their chassis. So Im sorry if it seemed I was just guessing, but I have been putting lots of time into the planning off this diorama. I am also going by posibility intstead of plausible. I know Im only 14 so I cant have any real clue what war is really like, and Im sorry if I insult any veterans, that isnt my intentions. That said, In my opinion of war, just because something isnt likely doesn’t say at all that its not going to happen. Also, you make do with what you have, not what you need. If you have a shining new new Tiger tank and and escort of filled Halftracks, obviously you will use it, but if all you have is a rust covered, outdated, machine gun turret mounted on a discountinued chassis covered in bullet holes and blast marks, you would be wise to take it in many situations. As I said, I am sorry if I mis-portrayed war, I was just saying, that my researching has led me to beleive it is possible that a panzer II was their, any unlikelyhoods aside.
Build it as you want, but… Not sure where you read that Normandy was where they dumped outdated and obsolete equipment though. It was not. (Now I see where you got that; in your post in the Armor Forum, read it again, that is not what he means. Obsolete equipment was left there from when France was the rear area after they were worn out and non-operational, not for combat duties.) The Germans expected an invasion from the English Channel during the summer of '44. Due to this, Field Marshal Rommel and his best panzer divisions were sent to defend the French coastal areas. Granted, they thought the invasion would come at Calais, not up the coast at Normandy, but the whole area was full of first rate Panther (Pz 5) and Tiger (Pz 6) tanks, not obsolete Panzer IIs. Like I said, build it as you like though, its your diorama.
On October 1 of 1944, there were total of 386 Panzerkampfwagen II tanks in German service but following this month no more reports about available Panzerkampfwagen II tanks were made. The only Waffen SS units to be equipped with Panzerkampfwagen II were Panzer-Grenadier Division Leibstandarte, Das Reich and Wiking fighting on the Eastern Front. Leibstandarte received its first Ausf F tanks in late 1942 but by spring of 1943, all were withdrawn from service. Panzerkampfwagen II also saw service with Germany’s ally - Slovakia. It is an unconfirmed rumour that probably after the war few saw service with Lebanese Army (probably from Romania
| The final development of Panzerkampfwagen II was Panzerspaehwagen II Ausf L Luchs (Lynx) - Sd.Kfz.123 (VK 1303). This light reconnaissance tank was produced by MAN and Henschel (small number) from September of 1943 to January of 1944. An order for 800 was made but only 104 (some sources state 133) were manufactured (chassis number 200101-200200). MAN developed the chassis and Daimler-Benz the superstructure and turret. Luchs was a development of VK 901 (Ausf G) and used its modified suspension and hull. It was powered by 180hp 6-cylinder Maybach HL66P engine with ZF Aphon SSG48 gearbox. Luchs weighted 13 tons and had road range of 290km. Four men crew consisting of commander, gunner, driver and radio-operator operated Luchs. Communication equipment consisted of FuG12 MW receiver and 80-watt transmitter. The communication between the crew was by the use of the intercom. |
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This light reconnaissance tank saw service until the end of the war on both the Eastern and Western Front with Panzer-Aufklarungs-Abteilungen (armored reconnaissance detachments) of Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS. Reported users include 116th Panzer Division on the Western Front and 3rd, 4th and 6th Panzer Division on the Eastern Front. It is reported that 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf and 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking fighting on the Eastern Front also used Luchs. Vehicles sent to the Eastern Front were mounted with additional frontal armor plate for increase protection. Small number was fitted with additional radio equipment and antennas and served as reconnaissance communication vehicles. Luchs was to be eventually armed with (Luchs 5 cm) 50mm KwK 39 L/60 gun (VK 1602 Leopard) but only variant with 20mm KwK 38 L/55 cannon (with rate of fire 420-480 rounds per minute) was produced. The 20mm cannon was fitted with TZF6 optical sight. It is also reported but not confirmed that 31 Luchs were mounted with an open-top turret armed with 50mm KwK 39 L/60 gun and began arriving to the troops in late 1943.i got this fromthe web sight Achtung Panzer!fockwulf hope this helps
Heavy Arty, thanks a ton for your research, all im asying is that Im not basing my idea of guesses and opinions. And fockwolf, yes Im very grateful for the research, it was a huge help. And also here are two photos, which in my opinion are fairly good proof of the posibility. The first just shows that even weirder/older vehicles than the panzer II were encountered in Normandy by the allies. The second, is a picture of a panzer II in France, 1944.
The two above pics don’t really prove anything. In Iraq, I found all sorts of old vehicles, to include Sherman tanks, an FT-17 (as above), and lots of other old British and US tanks and AFVs. Just because they were there, doesn’t mean they were being used to fight from. I can show you the same type pictures with US soldiers climbing on them too. Just because a vehicle was in the area doesn’t mean it was being used.
If you are so set on using a Panzer II, why not just make it in Poland, N. Africa, or Russia, all areas where they were heavily used? That would be more feasible. But do as you will, it is only history.
Wow, that is interesting to know that there has been shermans seen in Iraq, just a little weird sounding. And I understand your point, that just because it was there doesnt mean it was used, I read many outdated vehicles were used for police duty or other non military purposes. I have been thinking about putting it in a diorama set in early ww2 Poland, or posibly North Africa, which wouldnt be a bad choice since the 5 included figures are Africa Korps. Its just that Im getting pretty far on this diorama set in Normandy, and I think that a old, beat up tank would really fit the part there, but your completely right, I dont want to sacrifice realism just for what might look better. So ill probably just build a different german AFV for this diorama and make another of the panzerkampfwagen II. HeavyArty, thanks for keeping my ideas from getting out of control and unrealistic, plus I learned some interesting bits of history through your posts. Thanks everyone, Ill probably have pictures of the diorama so far tomorow. Its still in the basic terrain shaping and placement stage, so know that it will look a lot different painted, flocked, covered in static grass, foliage, etc…