Goodday all!! Working on an F-4 for the Vietnam GB and Marines GB. Here’s my dilemma: I am working on a Hasegawa 1/72 and keeping with fine Hasegawa tradition, it has NO weapons. So, I picked up the Hasegawa Bombs and Rockets set. NICE set, but, here’s the thing, the original kit provided only TWO pylons. I guess my question is this: are MER and TER units mounted on a pylon or directly to the fuselage. I’m sure it’s on a pylon, so, my next question would be: Where the heck to I get a set of pylons for a 1/72 F-4?? The kit goes through great lengths to show the various weapons configurations, but, the weapons set provides little means to mount them. THANKS!!
I presume you are talking about the centerline hard point. Yes there should be a pylon to attach any ordnance to that hard point. MERs, TERs, large bombs, gun pods, etc. are attached to a pylon.
here’s a link to a page I made for this question a while back
sites.google.com/…/phantom-pylons
I am not sure if you want to go to the aftermarket for the pylons or not, but, a lot of modelers just cut the tanks off of the outer pylons and mount their MERs on those if they don’t want to invest in resin parts. (its not strictly correct, but, it is easiest and quickest)
If you really want the whole pylon set up, I will be glad to lay it all out for you. (most people don’t want to go that deep)
Rex
In 1/72, it would be pretty easy to scratch the outboard wing and centerline pylons from strip styrene.
Thanks guys. I suppose for the centreline MER, I could recycle the fuel tank pylon as it would be buried under all the bombs and MER itself. As for the TER, I see from that excellent pic that it mounts on the same kit part I have so, that’s good. So, for my build, I’m thinking outboard: fuel tanks, inboard: TER, Centreline: MER. Now, would they have put anything on either side above the TER? Perhaps Napalm or Sidewinders?
I am pretty sure that only sidewinder rails can mount above the TER on Air Force inboard F-4 pylons. I have seen Marine Phantoms with twin Zuni 5" tubes on those stations, but never come across a photo of Air Force Phantoms mounting those.
you can mount LAU-33 twin Zuni on the inboard side on the Sidewinder rails that come in your kit. If you do that, most photos show the outboard rails removed, with the “bolt tubes” bolted on. (they look like huge thick washers)
4 Sidewinders is another popular option. The Napalm carried in Vietnam by Marine F-4s is not the same type as you got in your weapons set. and it is so heavy that it wouldn’t go on those rails, it would mount in pairs on those TERs. Empty Sidewinder rails is another option, most of the time a Phantom didn’t take off with a full load of Fuel, Missiles and Bombs.
Things had to be adjusted for total take off weight. (and Cat strength/runway length at Chu Lai,little talked about fact is that those two J-79s would lose power due to age on them as they launched so many sorties, sometimes reducing the loads the aircraft could carry until they were replaced by new/refurbished jets,they put in more total hours per day than the same engines mounted on a Phantom, after all, and had to do everything from Skyhawks up to Phantoms, and Intruders, same thing, but to a lesser extent with the J-79s on the MOREST Gear end)
Rex
I do have a large amount of Sidewinders in the Air to Air weapons set, so, 4 x Sidewinders is definitely an option…many thanks guys!!
After already spending lots of extra money (almost as much as the kit itself) on AM stuff, I think I will ‘cheat’ and cut the pylon off the outboard fuel tanks and use them for the MERs. TERs on the inboard with Sidewinders and the centreline tank. NOW, the big question…would they still pack in the Sparrows in the fuselage??
You will get different answers on that Sparrow question. That is because different things were done at different times.
If you are doing an early war USMC F-4B, then you can either put 4 Sparrows in their mounts, or just the front 2. Later on in the war, after a few mishaps and the discovery that the Sparrow wasn’t that great anyway, just put 2 in the rear. There are stories of “don’t ever put Sparrows in front of the Center tank”,but, in Navair usage, those tanks were punched off before the wild maneuvering started anyway,so, you can just follow what your photos show and put 2 in the rear, 2 in the front, or all 4 on the aircraft.
I am sort of wondering how you are going to fill up 2 MERs and 2 TERs with one weapons set, though,unless you bought more sets? (oops, just looked, 1 set gives you 12 500s and 6 500s with extensions, you have enough)
Early USN Sidewinders on the F-4B were the AIM-9B version that comes in your missile set.
I believe he’s doing a USAF Phantom. As Rex said, Sparrow load out will vary, mostly based upon mission tasking when loaded before take off. Another variable is the phase of the air war. During the 1972 air campaigns, it was common for AF Phantoms to carry an ECM pod in one of the forward Sparrow wells, sometimes in both. AF used AIM-9Bs originally, and starting in’67 or so the AIM-9E was carried until late 1972 when the -9J made its combat debut. F-4Ds carried AIM-4 Falcons with horrible results between 1967 and 1972. Just in case you felt like arming yours with something different. The AIM-9D/G was a Navy/Marine Corps only missile, and the 9L/M all aspect multi service Sidewinder did not go operational until many years after the Vietnam war ended.
Ok, scratch the Air Force Phantom remarks. I got your build confused with Silentbob’s. he is doing the F-4C/D. I see your doing a Marine Corps Phantom. IIRC, they tended to operate primarily in the CAS role in South Vietnam, and interdiction role in the adjoining areas of North Vietnam and Laos.
You guys are providing some fantastic info…many thanks. Yes Stik…total Marines CAS bird for this one. Yes, Tarn, the set gives you the option to clip off the extension to make 'em regular Mk.82s.
For some reason I was thinking that there were only 6 standard 500 pounders per box.
I should have known better, or looked sooner. (laffing at myself)
Rex, I think we need to get you a red shirt since you have that bomb farm going.
Tarnship: Do you know what a typical load out for a Super Hornet in a Interception mission?
OK, I am home on the desktop and can find you some Marine Phantom mud moving load out photos
This one appears to have 6 x M-117s on three TERs, inboard and centerline pylons
this one outboard pylons w/TERs and Mk.82 Snakeeyes
now here is a real mixed load out- inboard pylons with Zuni twin tubes, and TERs with Mk.81 Snakeeyes and centerline station holding another TER w/napalm cans
outboard MERs with MK.82s, inboard TERs with LAUs, Sparrows and Centerline tank
outboard MERs w/napalm cans, inboard TERs with single LAU
outboard MERs w/partial Mk.82 load, inboard TERs with single LAU
lots of mix and match warloads to get you going here
Inboard TERs w/napalm and centerline gunpod
ok, this sucker is not going far from base, but can put a LOT of hurt on bad guys nearby…
MERs and TERs full of Snakeeyes, and a centerline MER w/3 napalm cans…
Zuni pods on TERs, Zuni tubes, and centerline Mk.82s on MER.
oh yes, and don’t feel that just because you put your Phantom full of MERs and TERs that you have to load those all out with max loads. There were “bomb shortages” during Vietnam and as you have seen, less than full load outs were not rare.
Haha, Stik. I don’t really have that many weapons sets,only about 50 sets from all the different manufacturers, so a Red Shirt wouldn’t be appropriate for me. I don’t really have any fondness for weapons sets, I am just sort of hooked on Hasegawa Jet models,and that creates a built in need for things to hang on them, or I would wind up with a whole collection full of Jets carrying Drop Tanks with empty weapons pylons.
I was a Blue Shirt, after all. (mostly, and mostly a driver, at that). To that end I have over 20 different Naval/Marine tractors,and to honor the Grapes I have about 20 different Fuel trucks,I do seem to have a bunch of bomb loading equipment too, though.
I see that some of your photos of the Dual Zuni load have the empty Sidewinder rail on them, Thanks for those shots, I will add them to my collection of “variations”.
I am sorry, but, I know very little about the Hornet and Super Hornet loads, those were both “after my time” and I am building the bare minimum of them to fill out my squadron collection (I am not into the TPS/Low Viz deal much) But, Darren, Paul, Joe, etc, might be able to help you.
I have been “greenlighted” to build some sort of “wide and deep diorama display case”, as soon as I can figure out how to make a 3 foot by 6 or 8 foot shelf without any sagging potential. She wants me to build a “section of Chu Lai” for my Uncle to come and look at on one shelf.
and there I go getting wordy again, sorry
Rex
oh, a little MER tidbit,if you build USAF and put MERs on the outer wing pylons, the MER and pylon are in line with each other, but, the pylon is tilted relative to the aircraft’s wing,if you build USN/USMC or very early USAF, the pylon is perpendicular to the wing, but, the MER is tilted on the MER adapter on the pylon.
you can see that tilt on the VMFA-513 bird with the MJ-1