Anyone have any info on what a typical loadout would be for F-104Cs in Vietnam? I plan on eventually doing the Hasegawa kit, but need to scrounge some ordnance
The F-104 did not fly air to ground in Vietnam. They were there early in the war to combat the MIG-21 if it should enter the conflict. The MIG-21 did not make an appearance until years later. They were mostly armed with two AIM-9B Sidewinder missiles. There were other aircraft in Vietnam at the time that could carry more air to ground ordnance than the F-104 could.
I have only seen pictures of F-104’s carring wing tip tanks and Sidewinders. They were only used in the air-to-air role
Huh…I gathered that they did from a few Yahoo searches
Just so you don’t think I am crazy!!
from http://vietnamresearch.com/air/aircraft.html
Almost all the F-104s in the fighter-bomber version, assigned the letter C, were used in Vietnam, for 21 months, during which time they performed important, far-ranging work. The first fifteen Starfighters arrived in April 1965, with the 476th Tactical Fighter Squadron and the 479th Tactical Fighter Wing: from April 20 to November 20 of the same year they carried out 2,927 missions of machine-gunning, bombing and escorting strike aircraft, sometimes in North Vietnamese air space, before returning to the United States. The 476th was back, however, in June 1966, operating from the Udorn base in Thailand. The F-104Cs were now camouflaged in accordance with operational needs and in July were handed over to the 436th TFS and in October to the 435th, still belonging to the 479th TFW. From June 1966 to July 1967 the F-104Cs carried out escorting and bombing missions on North Vietnam, with over 5,290 sorties. The last Starfighter left Thailand before the end of 1967, its duties being taken over by the Phantom F-4D. Although not much has been written and said about the F-104C, it seems to have given a good account of itself, but the shortage of machines obviously limited its use.
From http://www.vectorsite.net/avf1041.html
They were also put into use in the ground-attack role, mostly performing strikes “in-country” on targets in South Vietnam. It proved effective as a strike aircraft at first, and its speed and small frontal area made it a difficult target for enemy anti-aircraft gunners
and from http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/f104_9.html
As the MiG threat abated, the 476th TFS was tasked with some weather reconnaissance and ground attack missions. A few of these were against targets in North Vietnam, but most of them were close air-support missions against targets in the South under forward air controller direction. The F-104s were fairly successful in this role, gaining a reputation for accuracy in their cannon fire and their bombing and capable of quite rapid reaction times in response to requests for air support. During this period, the 476th F-104s maintained an in-commission rate of 94.7%, a testimony both to the quality of 476th maintenance personnel and to the simplicity and maintainability of F-104 systems. However, an F-104 went down during a sortie 100 nm SSW of DaNang on June 29. The pilot was rescued with minor injuries.
I would love to see a 104 in an SEA camo pattern[8-]
According to F-104 In Action - “Though 104s were deployed to SE Asia for the sole purpose of MIGCAP, they never had the opportunity to engage enemy fighters and eventually were used in the air-to-ground role…a role they were ill-suited to perform. They were not used on asustained basis after 1967.” On page 18 of the same book there is a F-104C on static display with the ordinance it can carry, and it shoes a rocket pod dispenser, a couple of small bombs, centerline ordinance rack, missiles and drop tanks. I don’t have any pictures or other info on air-ground munitions.
T.Young [8-]
Tanks Taispin. I will have to pick that book up.
I was looking through my long out of print copy of Squadron’s “USAF Aircraft of Today” (which is a pretty inaccurate title, given that there are several pages devoted to the B-47 and its contemporaries, and this book came out in 2978), trying to find a 104C in SEA. The only photo there is one in SEA paint scheme with a practice bomb dispenser (once of those streamlined pods that carried the 25 lb. “blue whistlers” and a couple of 2.5 inch rockets. However, I have seen photos of Starfighters in SEA with either a Mk. 81 or 82 under each wing, and other photos of them carrying rocket pods. I believe one of the main differences between the A and C models was the ability to deliver air-to-mud ordnance. The “Smoke II” plane was one of the decal options in one of the last releases of the Monogram kit, and as I also said earlier, that same plane’s marking can be found on the Zotz/Albatross sheet, which is the finest I’ve ever seen for the F-104. It comes in 1/72 and 1/48 and has about eight sheets of various sizes in the package, along with a comprehensive color placement booklet. All stencils are included.
Tom
I was looking at those decals. Definitely on the to buy list. Just trying to get everything in order before I make my next order. Thanks! The bombs were single bombs? Where there any missiles on the outmost pylon? Anything on the centerline?
All you need do is ask…
The camo is hard to see in this next shot because of all the smoke, flame and crap flyin’ offa the jet… [;)]
To reiterate… as is plainly visible in the first image, they did fly air to ground. Matter of fact, when all was said and done, the 104s flew more air to ground than air to air. Also, when they did fly air to air, they usually carried four AIM-9s, not two…
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Awesome!! Thanks!
BTW the F-104 when not flying has a full wing guard on each wing because each wing is literally razor sharp.
That is interesting. Going to have to look for pics of that
While it is true that the leading edges of the wings were covered to prevent injury to ground crew, they were not literally razor sharp. I’ve been able to touch the wings of an F-104 on four occasions and would equate it more with a really, really dull knife than a razor.
Nevertheless, 'twas obviously still dangerous and you could get sliced if you didn’t watch yourself…
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Steve O - com on man, the F-104 leading edges were dulled down for display purposes. Dull knife edges, really! [:D]
T.Young [8-]
Very true. The covers were put on the wing to protect the wing, not people. The leading edge was made of titanium and was milled to a dull edge. The covers were installed to protect the wing from damage while on the ground. I knew a Dutch Crew Chief, who worked on the F-104 and he told me the leading edge was always being repaired to work out dings and damage. He said, as a joke, that the leading edges on some F-104’s were changed more than the tires.
Now that’s interesting and it makes sense. Never crossed my mind that they were covered to protect the wings themselves…
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Some pics in SEA scheme
I was looking through the November 2003 issue of combat aircraft magazine and they have a 4 page spread on the F 104 in Vietnam.
There were two major roles for the fighter, MiG supression, and Close Air Support for the ground. I see high speed bombs for the close air support and sidewinders and sparrows for the MiG Cap.
There were two paint schemes, Natural, and SEA camo. The BMF was extensively stenceled. Seems like every panel had somekind of stenciling on it.
Also the access panels on the SEA camo were White, not the green or yellow Zinc Cromate you see. Page 84 of the issue shows a white access panel. SUprise suprise.
See if you can find this issue or back order it.
thier e mail address is info@ianallanpub.co.uk
hope this helps
Ric
Thanks Philip
Ric, thanks. I will emal them to see if they have any back issues or better yet, something online! Do they have any pics? More importantly, any pics with ordnance?