Dog Tags, parkerization and other questions

Modeling Subjects Armor
1

I noticed one thing missing on a lot of Vietnam era dioramas are the dog tags. Does anybody make them in 1/35. I’m sure if a soldier is only wearing his vest the dog tags would be in sight.

And I also noticed a lot of weapons look way off. Most all military weapons have a parkerized finish that goes from a black/gray to a green/gray with even some hints of a blue in there some times. It also has a funny texture because of the way the parkerization finishing works. Does anybody have a technique to simulate this? I’m going to try a few methods one involving fine graphite particles.

When I see an M-16, M60, M2 or worse a M-3 grease gun painted silver I cringe. Newly parkerized weapons look more black with a tint of gray like the M40 106mm RR or as with the M3 gray and that rough surface. As they age they kind of get a patina like a coin or something.

And does anybody know were I can find the Ironside M67 flame tank kit(can’t find at all)? Or an Italeria M108 kit? Talk about hard to find and if you do expensive stuff.

I contacted the company Azimut to buy one of their M706 air force open top versions, no answer. No way to buy if you don’t join their web site and no way to join their website. So I bought a version of it in 1/48 on ebay and I will use it to upscale and scratch build eventually, it’s tiny but kind of cute. I’ll try to document it the best I could for anybody who wants to try it. So does anybody know how to get on of those from Azimut in France?

There are SO many cool things floating around and it’s so hard to get in the good Ole USA. It’s all overseas…you can’t even get certain paints or primers that would make things easier. I’d rather buy American but we don’t make anything let alone carry it from other countries. It’s very frustrating to have to order things from other countries.

And one more thing, I made an order from Tankrats, they owe me $35 from a refund and didn’t even send me some of the right stuff. No matter what I do they will not return any calls or emails. I’m going to have to make a claim with my credit card. I will never do business with Tankrats again. I smell a rat…

2

The Eduard PE set for the M274 Mechanical Mule contains two pair of dog tags for the crewmen (set #35643).

Yes, I know where to find an Ironside M67 and Italeri M108; in my basement storage room.

Tankrat being a thief is a frequent topic on most modeling forums. Comes up a couple times a year for at least half a decade.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/thread/1289922561/TankRat-Jon+Michie+is+STILL+a+thief!…

Complaints about him follow this pattern:

Usually begins with post like yours, followed by a few TR supporters that tell you to call/email/smoke signal/use ESP because he has had health issues/bad weather/car problem/family or job crisis and you should cut him a break.

Couple other guys chime in with their similar stories and are still waiting for their stuff.

Someone says they saw him at the local show and to track him down at the next up coming local show that he says he will be at.

Rep from the next up coming local show says that they’re the table vendor dude and that TR does not have any tables rented and all tables for the show are already gone.

Someone mentions talking to him on phone and getting resolution.

Next guy says he talked to him on the phone and he got an ear full of excuses or profanities and is now going to local authorities. Others post contact info of local authorities that they have already contacted.

Rinse & repeat four months from now.

3

Yeah Rob I smelled a RAT at tankrats. One of his suppliers told me that he still owes him and others money from 2 years ago and this is guy is a shady character. Of course this is all after the fact.

I think I’m going to have to scratch build some tags…A piece of wire and some styrene should do it. I also build guitars and amplifiers and I have loads of wire that I can use for things. Due to my spinal issues it’s impossible for me to build amps and guitars anymore, it;s harder then you might think. I have to build something so Vietnam Armor it is!!!

If you want to sell the M-67 let me know…[:)] If you would like to tell me what I need to make an M48 into one that would be cool. I know that you have to modify the bezel over the front lights because the barrel could depress more and the barrel uses the older style Y muzzle break not the T. And the barrel is shorter and thicker. But I am sure there are other details. I’m trying to put it all together.

The M108 is going for about $60 on eBay…ouch.

What goes around comes around and this Tank RAT guy will eventually get caught up, they all do. They either end up in jail, on the run or do it to someone with bad intentions. I’ve seen this happen all my life growing up in the inner city, New York City. They get away with it for a long time and then bang like a ton of bricks it all falls down on them.

4

If you find out how to order from them and they are reliable, let me know. I’d like to get a true model of the 706 because I used to drive them.

Here’s a couple shots of them in S.E.A.:

Weapons and equipment had some variations according to availability and agreements. Not everybody had the ballestic shields for their vehicles and the squadrons that did have them usually didn’t have enough to go around. The .50 caliber was not allowed in Thailand, either were the H.E. rounds for the 81mm Mortor. Colors for the armored vehicles normally were O.D. or the cammoflage pattern shown altough at least Ubon used a black/O.D. pattern on at least some of their 706s.

The Security Police, while operating in the role of Air Base Defense, also operated the M-113:

other vehicles and people:

Here’s a few of the weapons in our arsenal.:

81mm Mortor:

XM-174 automatic grenade launcher:

90mm Recoiless Rifle/M-72 L.A.W.:

5

There’s another totally overlooked model that should be made, the M-37. There was almost as many as them around Nam from what I can see as any other vehicle. Utility vehicles are overlooked by the modeling companies, they’d rather produce yet another version of a panzer or Sherman.

What colors were the Air force M706 open top version in country? It looks like Olive green, tan/sand and olive drab. Kind of like the camo colors on the aircraft of that time.

Was that a CJ Jeep of some kind?

I read that M2s were used as long range sniper rifles with night vision scopes.

6

The Ironside M67 was really an M67A2. The kit is a Korean copy of the Tamiya sprues, AFV Club individual track links, resin parts for the commander’s cupola and flamethrower barrel. It also includes a small etched fret with a few details.

Definitely not worth the money they initially went for on the shelves. More of a collector’s item than the definitive solution for an M67 series tank.

Sort of like the Gunze Sangyo Desert Storm M60A1 RISE/Passive tank with ERA; not worth the $100+ price tag for what you get compared to a mainstream kit that gets you the same vehicle with better results for under $30.

7

As far as that M108 on eBay, I need to chuck some of my kits that I know I’ll never build (M108, M109A4, M109A6) up on eBay and get some good money for them as well.

I have a fairly extensive collection of M48 and M60 series kits and accessories. I don’t normally part with them.

8

Pictured there are the M-151 jeep although there were some Cj-5 jeeps on base. They were gloss Strata Blue and were mostly used by squadron commanders. maint supervisors, and a few others. A couple went to the Law Enforcement section, along with a Chevy Carry All,very close to a surburban. The Cj-5 proved too hard to get in and out while wearing a web belt, weapon, ammo packs, radio,bayonet, and at times also a flack vest, helmet, and M-16 and ammo as well. They also were a bit top heavy and sometimes the right seat would come loose and the passenger stood a chance of falling out.

Some 151, had a canvas top, most had no top at all and either had the windshield down or completely removed to give the M-60 a 360 degree rotation. I have seen a couple jeeps with a center mount for the M-60 and even one with a center mount and a canvas top. In base defense these 151 were used as patrol vehicles for the three man Security Alert teams (S.A.T.). The tracks and ducks were used for the Quick Reaction Teams(Q.R.T.). They carried a 13 man unit to support a sector under attack.

The 706 ducks as we called them, were painted either overall O.D. or the basic colors of the aircraft, tan, green, green. The 113 tracks were tan, O.D., and black.

The truck was a M-715 weapons carrier. (I wish someone would do this as a kit) It was usually used by base defense patrols on the flightline or out in the sectors near the perimeter when the 151s were used up. Law Enforcement would also use these as patrol vehicles. Like the jeeps they started off a bit glossy but constant exposure to the sun, dirt, and mud would tone them down slightly. All patrols were required to clean off their vehicles before turning them in to the armory. Eventually a grey stain would form on the sides of the tires and th lower areas from running on sections of gravel.

Like I said, in Thailand the .50 cals were illegal because of their great range which was far beyond the M-60. They were afraid of damage to the surrounding towns, villages, and other structures. We had two locked up in the armory with the headspace set so all you had to do is mount them onto your vehicle and lock in the barrel. The one with the night scope on the A.P.C. is to protect that vehicle which was used as a mobile command post. It was sent into a sector under attack and would free up defense control to watch the other sectors. It would only travel out at night normally but this time it was on display a couple weeks after an attack so the base personnel could see what we had available. The local government never said a word about us having them and the local military had already shown that they have quad 50s, so they planned to put one on top a very tall tower. Nobody would fire it form a tower made of metal connex boxes so they mounted a xeon light instead.

9

Not that I’m aware of, but I’d bet they’re easy to make… I’d just flatten a small piece of solder, shape it, and glue it in place, then add the chain made from fine screen cut very close to the wire for the “beaded chain”… Never buy what can be built from scratch, that’s m’ motto…

I use Testor’s Model Master “Gunmetal” with a black wash, then a silver drybrush… You’ll notice that on the real weapons, the Parkerizing rubs off on the “sharp” edges of any weapon…

I cleaned my weapon’s outside too… It was usually given a thorough cleaning with carb-cleaner inside & out, then lightly lubed inside with RBC… I wiped down the outside with a rag dampened with RBC (AKA “Break-Free”) and then rubbed it’s metal parts down again, completely and throroghly, with a dry rag so it wouldn’t attract dust (any more then anyne else’s that is)… I’d never been issued a “New” weapon (meaning still in the Cosmoline), so I can’t help ya there… The metal surfaces of say, an M-16A2 are not rough, they’re actually pretty smooth. In 1/35th scale, any texture would be out of scale, IMHO…There’s a “sheen” on all the exterior surfaces, and the handguards, grip, and butt are almost a gloss when new, although some butts and handguards come with a rough texture… Depends on who built them… More often than not, my M-16A1s were from GM’s Hydra-Matic Division. and A2s were Colts… If you want to get a rough texture though, use a little talcum powder in the paint… I say a little because you don’t want it to look “Non-Skid Paint”-painted…

An M-48 would work, I think… What I’ve found regarding visible exterior differences is the following:

(Just a gas station-attendant, maybe that guy that worked at Wally’s Fillin’ Station in a small town in North Carolina, since it’s a Marine Track…)

I have no idea where to find any M67 from Ironside… (I’ve only ever built one of their kits and it was a real bear with tiny indy-links, but I got 'er done, lol…) Sorry… As for the M 108, I think it’d be rather easy to convert the Italeri M109A-nothing to the 105mm version if you’re up to it and have no luck finding an Italeri (Although, I see a couple on Ebay).

Do you limit your paints and such to “Hobby labeled” types or have you tried venturing into craft stores and check their paints (usually, for acrylics, you can get three times the paint for a third of the price of “Hobby-Label” paint) along with hitting hardware, package, and automotive stores?

10

I must have cleaned more weapons my time in the service and waxed floors then anything else. I was in the 1/11 ACR in Germany. The M16’s made by Harrington-Richardson and GM and I think there were a few others were horrible rifles. The M16A2 Colts we had in Germany were new, tight and nice. Smooth finish…esepcially the M203s.The others weren’t but we used them in training at Ft. Knox so they were abused. I also think they were rebuilt, the uppers and lowers would flex terribly and they weren’t very accurate at all.

Plus the upper and lower receivers are all made out of aluminum, the item that did have those edges were the ejection port covers on the M16 more than nay other part. The plastic did have a rough finish from use. The plastic got chewed up easily and I think the use of stuff like break free would soften the plastic.

The M-60 weren’t smooth at all. The barrels and receiver were rough. The feed tray cover was smooth, it was kind of a sheet metal and painted black that also got that edge effect too. The barrel and receiver were parkerized same with the M2 and the handguard was plastic with a metal top. New or newly rebuilt weapons were different I guess, it’s almost a blur of all the weapons I cleaned my time in, including a batch of M1911 45 colts, from black to gray. My old grease gun was a grayish color. Everything was parkerized even the bolt if I remember.

The only smooth surface weapon was the newer ones, which were more black, a new m16 was very black like the M203. I have seen older weapons from WWII and Korea and they were kind of green or gray.

The feed tray covers on the 60s did get that shinny edge look. So did some of the M2s. Come to think of it so did some of the old M16s. I’m guessing that most of the M16 and M60 in Nam were new. So they were not as abused but maybe by 68 they were in country for a while and were probably pretty chewed up being in real battle with all that humidity and dust. I think the A1 came in a little later and had the birdcage flash suppressor.

How that looks in 1/35 scale…I have no idea, I am going to have to experiment. But if I want to do a more realistic life like diorama Things like having the bolt cover open and seeing the color of the bolt on certain weapons is necessary as is a pile of brass at the side or bottom of someone firing. maybe a few empty mags there too.

I’m disabled and only go out to go to the doctor now. So I do all my shopping from the internet. All the hobby stores closed. The ones that are open are craft stores and are bigger chains, they do not even sell models anymore, maybe a few on a shelve in the back.

11

Pretty damn small… Good luck with the open dust cover… Gonna take a N0. 80 drill bit and a magnifyer from hell… Remember, the closest the eye can focus is about 4 inches, and the average viewing distance is from about 2-4 feet… Get a good close-up camera or no one but you will ever see your work, lol…

I’m in a GI chair m’self and don’t go out much… So I know the deal… I just make stuff if I can, rather than buy it… Still check the craft paints at various craft store’s site… They really are far cheaper then Hobby Brands…

Good luck, Brother Vet…

12

I wouldn’t suggest buying the Mule set for just the dog tags, but they do look very good.