Speaking in general now, I’ve come across a situation. if person A has life experience in a certain subject and person B has researched the subject, which person is correct?
I’m confussed on it’s a ‘been there done that VS kinda wish I could have done that’ thing. now person B gloating about research but not actually being at/in that subject, does it make him/her feel better?
This has been puzzeling me for a bit, if ya’ll care to reply i’d appreciate it.
research vs experience would depend on a lot of variables
I am sure there are guys on here that spent more time in the USN around Skyhawks than I did in the USMC,but, if their memory says they remember steerable nose gear on an A-4B or A-4C,then the guy that only researched the subject would be more correct if he learned the Skyhawk sub-type that the steerable nosewheel started on (A-4F),if the researcher says that the US A-4L had five pylons, then the nod would go to the guy with experience instead that remembers them having 3 pylons until they were pulled from storage and rebuilt for foreign usage
this happens or could happen with hundreds of topics that pertain to models,right down to people using MERs on US aircraft before 1965, because things have to be actually invented before they should be included on a model as “accurate” (it is very well documented that the A-6 had a problem with bomb collisions on the MBRs, causing the invention of the cartridge Ejector, creating the MER)
Rex
I saw a quote one time that went something like this:
“Those who have experience will never answer to those who have opinions.”
I don’t remember the exact quote but this may be close enough.
Tarn Ship brings up a good point. Experience can be tarnished with falling or incorrect memories. For example, when police take statements, even from several people who saw the same incident, they would not expect the statements to be the same.
A number of years ago, I was on a Battle Field tour of Monte Cassino. Staying in the hotel that we were was a vet from the battle. He had been an artillery spotter during the campaign. He told us of one occasion when he was sat in his bomb out house calling down arty on the enemy, and down the road was a Tiger doing the same.
But I know there were no Tiger’s in the town and it may well have been a Pz IV. Of course, I wasn’t going to argue with him, he was there, I wasn’t. But research has the benefit of being able to look back at something from a distance, taking into account the experience and views of many who were there. Or using tranships example, by being able to check manuals or other sources.
Its easy for the person with the experience to be arrogant that their view is right, but I think both should respect the advantage that the other has.
An Experience is one very small picture. Each person has one set of these very small pictures. Good research looks at a lot of these pictures, taken from a wide variety on angles and makes a big picture. Ask a Brit who landed on D Day to minimal resistance and D Day wasa cakewalk. Ask an American vet from Omaha Beach and it was a bloodbath. Ask a member of the general staff and it was a success with an acceptable cost. Ask a German defender and it was a disaster. Respect the (honest) experience but understand what research can supply. In either case, gloating is bad form.
Gloating makes one feel better if that is the nature of one’s makeup. Some people feel the need to be the “expert” and demand that others acknowledge it as well. It becomes a vital component of their life, such as it is.
On another web site, just post the question “What measure was the USS ARIZONA painted December 7 1941”? and stand back for an atomic “flame” war. Both parties argue the “correct” color scheme but neither party was there so “facts” are introduced and the battle begins. Research is a wonderful tool in accurately portraying a model but there’s always another undiscovered “fact” or person who was there to refute current, solid evidence. Unless you’re building for a client and accuracy is tied to payment, just enjoy the hobby.
By the way, my opinions are above reproach and if you disagree with me, I’ll report you to the Department of Nitpickers and Rivet Counters… you’ve been warned!
HA-HA-HA-HA :)!!! that’s great brother thunder1!!! on ms. BB-39, no,no,no,no… I have very good uncle who has posted that exact question, you are VERY correct!!!
I do appreciate the warning, but I think there’s no need to file 10-4 
thanks for the great laugh…
The people who know me well know that when I gloat its because I feel miserable.
To “gloat” is defined as “v. to look at or think about with great or excessive, often smug or malicious, satisfaction” Some people build their self-esteem on being “experts” on any given subject. You just can’t argue with them. Gloating would seem to me only justified for something you would do for something you accomplished, not something you’ve said or can say?
In any case, given the above definition, gloating is a terrible personality disorder. Pride or congratulations should always come from with_OUT_, not WITHIN. Humility wins more points from me than behavior which tries to belittle someone for one’s own benefit.
Ah , Doog
You are right on there .I have been called an " Expert " on some things and I still , at my advanced age turn pink , red , or leave the room in embarrassment ! I am no more an expert than my professor of design was . We were good then , But the world of our choosing has been changed by the electronic age . Profficient in the field yes .Time in grade , yes . An expert , No . Why ? well think about this . If I who has training was a real expert in plastics then why I haven’t been mentioned in documents for forming your own plastic molding company ? Simple , I was only part of the equation .Now If I’ve done something that no one else has done or thought of and made it work for decades , then I am the expert . If I have improved on someoone’s invention that is inventiveness , not being an expert .To be that you have to have the background and the info from the beginning .
The word is overworked and undervalued now . Saying he’s good is appreciated .Saying I am an expert , because I build for clients , No .There’s a lot of competition out there Many who employ quite a few folks to build those beautiful models you see in ads and stuff . Well , My co. started with three and now is one .So . I will leave it to the experts and do what I do for the satisfaction of a customer’s smile as they hand me a check or their tears as they realize that’s them , standing in that miniature wheelhouse . Does that make me an expert ? No , that makes me a darned good , attentive to detail , modeler .That’s all . Model On ! ! Tanker - Builder
I completely don’t get the original question. Is the expert the “gloater”?
Anyhow, gloating is a terrible behavior in any case, and I truly believe folds back on the perpetrator, eventually.
As for experience vs. knowledge, each is valuable.
Some years ago, a friend of mine told me a story. He was (now retired) the Chief Scientist at the company whose name is synonymous with photocopiers. This guy is just brilliant, multiple degrees at various Universities. He also happens to be a very nice guy and we are friends as couples.
When he started at Company X, he was put in the “old school” training program, going out in the field with the techs on service calls.
At their call, he was told to figure out what was wrong with the machine. So he got out the kit of test patterns and ran through the whole drill. After about 45 minutes he had it figured out, and told what he had discovered to the foreman.
“John, we figured it out half an hour ago”, the guy says.
“Really, how?”.
“We emptied the wastebasket and looked at the rejects”.
I gloated once, but then I took an antacid and felt better…
Hey G :
I think you nailed a good description there .I used to do just that for my crew at a well known Air Handling and Paint Booth company .You know what ? That was fun too ! Model On Tanker - Builder
Doc
I once thought that I knew, but I now know that I don’t.
As I read this, and re-think it,I don’t think he meant “gloating”,I think he means something more like “lording it over” instead.
If you consider it,if I were wrong, with experience, and someone else were correct, with research,then gloating would be crowing to the world about “beating me” by being right.
I don’t even know if it is worth posting anything to answer a question anymore,if it is from experience, there is the possibility that it was “only in Rex’s units”, so overall research would “make me wrong”,if my answer comes from “research, but without a web link” then, some other guy that only served in one unit could dispute it, claiming that I can’t prove it because I can’t show it online
the only solution would be to post copyrighted material all over the place,and I refuse to do that
so, maybe facts should just get left out of all of this completely,and just thousands of Wiki links posted in their place
One big example,there is a guy that literally served in one unit his whole military career,and he claims that a famous color is a myth,simply because the paint they used didn’t match it,so, okayyyyy then,I am supposed to surrender,and agree with him by stating “there never was such a color as International Orange”,but, nawww, I don’t think I will.
Rex
Bottom line: It’s the internet and many participants need to “win” because for them, it’s the one and only opportunity they will ever have. That “win” is, more than just a bit possibly, the highest form of validation they will ever have in their life. There’s a reason that so many “conversations” on any gives site quickly devolve into ugly affairs. Hobby related sites always, but ALWAYS have what an FSM forum member named ‘Hans von Hammer’ referred to as “Cliff Clavens” (the know it all postman from the TV show Cheers). Many times it goes beyond just the “know it all” and they exhibit a compulsive tendency toward confrontation, going after any and every comment as if it were the most vicious assault against them that could ever have been unleashed. They can’t believe that someone would have the gall to question what they, the “EXPERT!”, had posted rather than worshiping the fact that they had “graced” the forum with their “expertise”.
Lol! Amen to that! Oh so true.
haha, Paints,I don’t remember him saying that,but, it fits his style to a T.
I hope he pops up on here pretty soon again. He and I differed in ways that only modelers can, and still get along and respect each other. We don’t agree on scale, scale effect, photo-etch, weathering, old vs new kits, resin,etc,but, we each agree that the other has the right to build using his own methods and ideas,and reading him has taught this auld phart a thing or two,and everyone knows that “you can’t teach an old Rex a new trick”
But, yeah,“winning the internet” each day a person is logged in seems to be a goal for some.
I am in a position that I know that some others share,I literally have or know where to find or know how to make everything I “need” to build my collection, and I probably will not get it done in my lifetime. So, any new stuff will only make things easier for me, possible is already covered.
That means that the only reason I am online is to try and give away the info I so painstakingly searched for and collected over the decades. So, I can stay on any certain forum and try to help out, maybe show off a part or color when it comes up, or I can just retreat to my build bench and build all alone like I did in 1973 in the farm’s attic at the age of 16 (well, except for the Lady walking by my “build corner” now and then, which is more like the kitchen table when I was 8)
I don’t get upset when someone doesn’t believe me,but, I do get a bit upset when after posting the real fact, someone comes along to insist the long-time mistake we are trying to correct today (I still get told there were no doors on F-4B spines for Chaff/Flares,even after posting which book to look in that has the doors open)
there is a quite famous guy that insists that paint names were not in use in the USN, even though paint names are what caused a bunch of the confusion, and there is a directive from CNO in the early seventies " attempting to stop the use of paint names". He routinely snipes at convos that I enter into,instead of reading the Mil-Spec and seeing the evidence for himself,he would rather have people slowly catch on to the fact that he doesn’t know,than actually just look it up and learn it.
Rex
Well thank you all for taking the time!! you’ve all helped me (Doog,Rex,Stik, Fermis {no, Tanker,yer not gittin mentioned here HE-HE}) with answers to my ?'s, but this one, WOW!
Ya’ll gave me much insite for such a silly question…