I must fess up … I’ve lived in Oregon for the last 5 years and I love it here. I lived in southern California for 38 years and enjoyed it mostly during my 30’s and 40’s but the heat, dull, dry landscapes, and other factors (lack of $ being a major factor) contributed to my retiring up north. However, in my heart, I’ll always be a New Yorker. Born and raised in Manhattan and enjoyed most of my youthful extistence there.
I have established the New York Times as my home page on my computers and, somehow, was directed to the following pages probably because I clicked on something unintentionally.
Which bring me to my question: If you were going to pay $2,600.00 for a 59" model of the HMS Victory, wouldn’t you be somewhat annoyed if the modeler didn’t get the rails and balustrades lined up correctly on the stern? That and, perhaps, other “mistakes” in accuracy and naughtical knowledge on the part of the modeler would bother the heck out of me. Since I’m not as knowledgeable about sailing ships as many of you I’ll not criticise that aspect of these “museum quality” ship models. What do you think?
I’m not quite sure which “museum” these “quality” things come from or where they should go…
I’m really not sure where to start with what is not correct. I do not consider myself a good modeler so I am not going to pass judgement on another’s interpretation of a ship, but I do know I would not part with $2600 without trying my hand at building one.
Those…objects…are not scale models - at least by the standards ordinarily applied in this Forum. Personally, I wouldn’t allow any of them in my house.
People have been marketing this sort of junk for at least a hundred years. The builders probably are Chinese, Vitnamese, Taiwanese, or Thai, working for far less than our minimum wage. In the world of genuine scale modeling, $2600 isn’t much. (Donald McNarry’s models on 1/192 scale routinely went for between $10,000 and $20,000 - and he didn’t get rich.) Those Asian modelers are getting brutally ripped off.
Always beware that phrase “museum quality model.” It’s utterly meaningless. Some of the shoddiest models I’ve ever seen have been in museums.
As for wood Victory kits, only one of the currently available ones - the one from the British company Jotika - meets any reasonable definition of “scale model.” (It costs over $1,000.) The others, from Italian HECEPOB companies like Mamoli, Corel, and Sergal, may look a little more like the real ship than the one we’ve been discussing.
i’ll stick with the observation I’ve made many times before: if you want to build a genuine scale model of this ship, the kit to buy is the 1/100 plastic one from Heller.
Building the Jotika model, or any other wood model of Victory, would be so difficult as to be nearly impossible. You’d have a full time job that would last at least several years. It’s really so far fetched an idea, I think it would take the second coming of Longridge.
Actually, cost no object, that would be the best plan if someone wanted this subject at a large scale, in wood. Buy the Jotika product and hire someone to put it together who knew what they were doing.
My favorite CNO story in ship models. Years ago when the owner was still alive and the store was open, a LHS near me had a steady customer named George Lucas. You know, the director. He commissioned ship modelsfrom Italy through the store, as he liked them around hishouse. He came in one time while I was prowling the aisles, eager to see his newest purchase. This particular one was some sort of speed racing boat. It was maybe 24" long, all mahogany with red topsides and the Ferrari logo on it. Probably a subject from the 50’s. Scale model engine alone would make you cry. We all got to spend a half hour or so going over it before he bought it and left. It’d betray a confidence to say what he paid for it, but Dr. Tilleys higher number is getting there. Kind of a neat experience.
I agree with your assessment of the Jotika Victory, it is impressive to say the least.
Also, I agree with the Heller 1/100 Victory model. Heck, you could buy Daniel’s beautiful PE set as well as replace the blocks and line with Chuck’s Syren products and still come out ahead in both a beautiful model and in cost.Bill,
Great story about George. I think I saw that model in the movie, “Fanboys.”
Someone no doubt could build it. But I know that anything less well designed is sitting on a shelf somewhere gathering dust. I’ve been buying line from Jotika for years, it’s made by Caldercraft. Judging by that whatever they’re packing into their kits must be good.
My better half and I have a favorite fish restaurant in Monterey CA we go to when we can justify the cost. “Sardine Factory”. Old school Italian place, somelier with an eyepatch, red leather banquets, the works. You see people like Leon Panetta and Tony Bennett in there.
They have a truly magificent model of Victory over the fireplace in the bar room. It must be six feet long, all natural wood. One day I mean to ask the owner’s how they got it.
Looks like a Margarita to me… [t$t] This is California after all… Daiquiries are not so popular here compared to the cocktail of the Jimmy Buffet tune.
Certainly it is a Margarita. That’s the same bar by the way where Clint gets picked up by Jessica Walter in “Play Misty For Me”. I don’t remember if the model is in that scene.
Fill a shaker with ice. Add 1 ounce gin, ½ ounce Hypnotiq liqueur, ½ ounce Peachtree schnapps, ½ ounce blue Curaçao and ¼ ounce Rose’s lime juice. Shake, strain into a martini glass and serve.
In answer to the next question, no way. I’m a bourbon man.
Spend a grand and the yards don’t even have yard arms? Sails furled, but still yards still raised? Not nearly enough line size variety. At least one of the kits just had brass rings rather than deadeyes. I’d be afraid to look at knightheads, kingposts, capstans and the like.
CapnMac, I’m afraid you’ve lost me. Are you referring to a particular kit (maybe the Corel, Mamoli, or Sergal one? (cetainly not the Jotika version.)
I don’t like raised yards without sails set from them, but the blame for showing the yards raised when the sails are furled surely rests on the builder. (It does help, though, to have a decent set of plans - which few of the HECPOBs do.)
Your reference to yards without yardarms has me stumped. A yardarm is just the outer extremity of a yard - the part outboard of the “yardarm cleats.” I don’t see how a ship could have a yard with no yardarm.
I’ve had some fun over the years telling students that “Mr. Christian, I’ll see you hang from the highest yardarm in the British Navy” is Hollywood gibberish. By definition there had to be two highest yardarms in the British Navy, one at each end of the highest yard in the British Navy.
No doubt if they had said “yard”, generations of movie goers would have expected it to be the one in Scotland. Which it isn’t. Makes me want to dig out the Nordhoff and Hall book dad gave me.
“Master craftsmen using historical drawings or plans have meticulously handcrafted from scratch these highly accurate replicas. The hull is designed in the way the ship was originally built, and is to scale with high-grade woods and plank-on-frame craftsmanship similar to the construction of actual ships. Each of these beauties takes more than 100 hours to build.”
More than 100 hours to build? That model at least for me would take several months. I will bet you anything it’s assembled in a factory assembly line setting somewhere in China.
I have seen on eBay many of these high priced so called"Master Craftsmen" described built models with plenty of errors in markings, colors and other things. At that high price tag, it better be done correctly.
Perhaps they are banking on the fact that most of their customers would not be knowledgeable enough to spot the inaccuracies in the ship models they sell.
There’s more in those numbers than meets the eye initially. It’s not possible to build a decent model of a ship like the Victory - whether from a kit or from scratch - in 100 hours. The very fact that the marketer is using that figure establishes that he, at least, knows nothing about scale ship modeling.
The claim that the models are “plank-on-frame” is almost certainly an outright lie. I’d be willing to bet they’re plank-on-bulkhead.
And do a little math. It’s a safe bet that the company that markets these objects is putting at least two thirds of that $2,600 into its own pockets. (Some goes to shipping, packaging, advertising, etc.; the rest is pure profit.) If those modelers are getting a third of the retail price (I suspect they’re getting less), and are putting in 100 hours apiece on the models, they’re getting $8.67 per hour. That’s about one seventh what a good American or European scale modeler would charge.
In other words, this is a scam. The only question is who’s getting ripped off worse: the customer or the model builder.
And Philo’s right - and so are the marketers, in making the assumption that the average person has no idea what a scale model of a sailing ship looks like. That’s why the HECEPOB companies stay in business.
