Does anyone have a close match for the gray used for the code letters on BoB day fighters? I am working on a custom set for my Spitfire, and the colors on similar decal sheets I have range from a dark, warm gray to a very light cool gray. As long as I can get a close match, I will be happy. TIA! [:D]
Frank,
I strongly believe it was SKY. I ill look into the references of mine to get proof and get back to you.
Thanks Greg, much appreciated! [:D]
Sent you a PM. [swg]
The codes were Sky Grey FS36463. Not to be confused with Sky Type S.
Regards, Rick
Thanks Rick for clarification!!
BTW: I am going to use masks for my next Spit markings including insignias. I think its time to take control [:)] Just to many problems with decals colors and setting problems. Enought [:)]
Thank you guys for the help! Rick, that’s EXACTLY what I was looking for.[:D]
Greg-great minds think alike! I was getting frustrated trying to find decals I liked, so I decided to just paint them myself. I have done a few practice runs, and I think I am ready. A little nervous though, as any screw-ups mean a strip down and repaint. Wish me luck! [tup]
just to be on a safe side: use enamels if you normally use acrylics - clean just letters if they do not match what you need [:)]. Is it doable ?? I heard do not ut enamels on acrylics, but I did not experience any problem while doing such things [:)]
Thanks Greg. Think I may just take the plunge and hope for the best! I figure that a lot of the wartime photos I see show letters that are not straight, slightly off, etc. As long as I am close, it should be good! Thanks for the advice! [:D]
On the Temperate Land scheme (Green/Dark Earth) codes were Medium Sea Grey. On the Day Fighter scheme (Green/Ocean Grey) the codes were Sky. Sky Grey was camouflage colour used on Fleet Air Arm or Coastal Command aircraft at the beginning of the war.
Not according to my references. Medium Sea Grey wasn’t introduced until 1941, after the BoB time frame.
Regards, Rick
Hmmm…
Sounds like almost any light, cool grey would work. I have a couple of Tamiya lt. greys, think I may go with one of them. Thanks for your help fellas! [tup]
In April, 1939 the instructions were to paint code letters in Stores Ref. 33B/157 grey. Paul Lucas found that “grey” is all that is mentioned, in the stores list. Sky Grey was /263-265, and Medium Sea Grey /345, so what /157 was is anyone’s guess. Right through until December, 1940 “grey” is the only word used.
Edgar
I checked an old book I have (BRITISH AVIATION COLORS OF WW2 ) . This is actually of the
official manual that was used ,it states that the codes are gray paint my guess
is possibly medium sea grey or sky grey .
I hope this helps
Frank C
The weekend has come and at last I have some time to debunk this Sky Grey nonsense.
AMO A154/39 (27 April 1939) Identification Markings on Aircraft and Marking of Unit Equipment in Operational Commands.
The purpose of this document was to standardise the camouflage and markings of RAF and Fleet Air Arm aircraft. You can find a copy of this document and those that followed it here:
http://www.rafweb.org/sqn_codes.htm
It was written for people who new how to do their job, not to explain to future researchers exactly what colours were being used at the time for camouflage and markings. Typically there are no references for the colours mentioned apart from their name. The names of colours for markings are generic, red, blue, yellow, black, white, grey. This does not mean that any camp would be interior decorator was licensed to paint the roundels in pastel shades because he thought they harmonised with the camouflage better or that any red in stock could be used or any grey thought appropriate could be used for the identification markings. They were Air Ministry colours that had been developed for these purposes and they expected the people concerned to know what they were and use them. Therefore the inclusion of the store’s ref for the grey used for identification markings is a little unusual. Although grey identification markings had been introduced in the past, it is possible that some did not yet know what the colour was as they had not yet come across it. The reference is there to clarify what colour should be used. Subsequent documents omit the reference because by that time it is assumed that everyone knows what the correct Air Ministry colour was. Nor is it true that nobody knows what colour Stores Ref. 33B/157 was. Camouflage and Markings, written nearly 40 years ago, identified it as Medium Sea Grey and more recently Paul Lucas has explained its origin in one of his articles in Model Aircraft Monthly.
Stores Ref. 33B/157 was developed in 1936 specifically for identification markings. At that time it was known as Sea Grey, Medium or Sea Grey (Medium). The name Sea Grey does not imply that the colour was to be used for aircraft that spent a lot of time flying over the sea or that it resembled the colour of the sea. Similar colours were grouped under a single name. Browns were called earth, greens the very obvious green, green-greys slate grey. Sea greys were neutral greys, that is, they are not tainted with another colour. Medium Sea Grey is a neutral grey so it was placed in the family of sea greys.
In 1936 it was proposed that aircraft should be marked with the squadron number on the rear fuselage behind the roundel and with an individual letter forward of the roundel. The RAE was tasked with finding the best size, style, and colour for letters and numerals for recognition in the air. The requirement was to be able to identify the squadron and letter at a distance of 500 yards. Because it might be necessary to use different coloured paints for recognition from the ground during air exercises, three different colours were required.
The RAE submitted its final report to the Air Ministry on 15th September 1936 stating the three colours used during the trials were grey, dull red, and ident green. Two sizes of character were tested. The first 48 inches high with six inch strokes tested for visibility at 500 yards. The second 18 inches high with 2.5 inch strokes tested at 200 yards. Both sizes in all three colours were tested against and earth coloured background and a green coloured background. In each case the grey colour was the most visible. On 7th October the Air Ministry informed the RAE that it had decided to standardise on the grey colour immediately. They were to prepare 100 Standards of the new colour on metal and a similar number on fabric and forward them to the Aeronautical Inspection Directorate. The material was to be bought to Specification DTD 314 and was to be called Sea Grey, Medium. On 28th September 1937, a letter sent to all operation commands, stated that the squadron identification number was to be applied forward of the national marking on both sides of the fuselage whilst the individual aircraft letter was to be applied aft of the national marking on both sides of the fuselage. The characters were to be 48 inches high and made up of strokes 6 inches in width with smaller characters only being used when the space available made such a course unavoidable. The paint to be used to apply the squadron number and individual letter was given as “Stores reference :- 33B/157 Colour Reference :- Sea Grey (medium)”.
Bomber Command applied these squadron markings with some variation in size and colour by some squadrons but for some reason Fighter Command did not. They lobbied for a more elaborate system of marking that would identify flight leaders and section leaders amongst other things. A trial system of marking was carried out by 111 Squadron. It is known that S/Ldr Gillians’s Hurricane L1555 had the number 111 applied in white and L1548, L1559 and L1584 had the upper half of the number 111 applied in red. All this came to end with Munich Crises in September 1938 with the adoption by Bomber Command and Fighter Command of the familiar system of squadron codes and identification letters.
The use of colours other than Medium Sea Grey for code letters is very unusual and rare. Some photographs taken 1939 of 604 Squadron Blenheims might have Red code letters that might indicate A-Flight. Other aircraft might have been painted in other flight colours. However, the photographs were taken during Air Defence exercises so the unofficial code letters might have been applied only for that occasion.
The only reference to Sky Grey being used for identification codes is with Beaufighers. Camouflage and Markings has some photographs of Beaufighter night fighters captioned as “possibly Sky Grey” but makes on mention of this in the text. The Modellers Data File says that both Sky Grey and Medium Sea Grey were used for the codes by Coastal Command and on night fighters but the same aircraft as found in Camouflage and Markings are captioned as having Medium Sea Grey codes. Coastal Command does seem plausible as iMedium Sea Grey might have been found to not have enough contrast against Dark Sea Grey or Extra Dark Sea Grey. In an article in Model Aircraft Monthly on Special Night Paul Lucas touches on the subject saying that there is a question over the exact colour of the squadron and code letters and that in theory they should be Medium Sea Grey but at least one source says that night fighters and night bombers were marked in Sky Grey. In the photograph captions he says the codes are “light grey, presumably applied in Medium Sea Grey.”
Sky Grey was a very light grey used on fuselage sides in the Temperate Sea scheme. The difference between Medium Sea Grey and Sky Grey is about the same as the difference between Neutral Gray and Light Gull Gray. So Sky Grey is not similar to Medium Sea Grey or an obvious substitute for it. I am sceptical that Sea Grey would have been used on aircraft flying at night. There were complaints at that time from both Bomber Command and night fighter squadrons that the yellow and white of the A type fuselage roundels made their aircraft too conspicuous especially in the light of searchlights. This eventually led to the introduction of the C type roundel but in the meantime squadrons took the law into their own hands and altered the roundels. In some cases they over painted the offending parts with Medium Sea Grey or even black (310 Squadron) or changed them to type B roundels (red and blue only). It is difficult to imagine that in these circumstances they would tolerate large letters on their aircraft painted in a colour that was nearly white. I think this might be another case of people making conclusions from photographs and stating those conclusions as though they are known facts. So far nobody seems to have found an example of an aircraft where it is definitely known that the codes were painted in a colour that was not Medium Sea Grey.
Well done Antoni ! Thanks for a such great info. I am going to keep it for my reference for sure !
You are right. It’s sky but I think it was little lightened. It is the same color as the band.
WOW, excellent info here! Thanks everybody for your help, and info. MUCH appreciated! [tup]