Really spectacular start! Can’t wait to see how it all develops. Im getting back into this hobby after many years of being out of it (25+) and its amazing to see the quality of the kits and the ingenuity of the folks like you that make it all come to life. Keep posting those pics!
Thanks Dogwatch … and welcome back!
Keep in mind that if you have to explain what’s going on in a diorama with more than a few words or a simple title, that you may want to re-think your story… The story should not only be apparent to the viewer, it should be immediately apparent…
I agree Hans, I have elaborated in order to establish the complete story line … once it’s completed, one should certainly be able to look at it and tell what’s going on. Of course, everyone’s perception of anything is likely to vary, my in-depth description was based upon what I was seeing.
Thanks,
rb
That is awesome!, I really like what you have done with the figures, you did a very nice job on the scratch built granade too!!
Thanks, Jim
Nice work, it’s looking great!
Thanks Guys,
Hopefully I’ll get to work on it during the next four days (off from work), about ready to start the groundwork.
Thanks for following,
rb
Been on somewhat of an extended “Christmas Break” … back to work on it this week!
rb
Can’t wait for a update Dave…looks Fantastic!
Looks awsome! Can’t wait to see it when its done. Like the story too.
Cut my terrain contour and started on the trench and observation post this morning:
- Still wet, the celluclay looks a bit sloppy … once it firms up, I’ll smooth it out some…
Less than 10% of the ‘O.P.’ interior will be visible when the diorama is completed though I still feel the need to complete it.
rb
That trench looks superb, razorboy. Nice work on the figs and the StuG crew, especially.
I’m a little worried about your layout though–just from a purely technical point; infantry in the wide open fields of Kursk would not have been “using a Stug for cover”. In fact, most likely they would have been avoiding getting too close to any armor there at all.
IN the Armor forums, Roy Chow of AMPS presented an interview transcript from WWII German tank veteran Wolfgang Kloth, who actually commanded a tank at Kursk. You can find that here.
In it, he stated: WOLFGANG K: “At Kursk, it was four days. And that was not very fun. The Germans faced for the first time, HUGE numbers of T-34s dug in – up to the turret. And that’s a bad deal – very bad. Number one, they are hard to see. Number two, they are hard to hit. And number three, they had already pre-determined distances to targets. “You know that they have to come through there, over that hill is 1500 meters and over there is 1200.” They were WAY in the advantage, way in the advantage. That was a sad affair. We really took a beating.”
If you think about that, the Russin tanks were knocking the hell out of the Germans, and at pre-determined distances, I’m not so sure that the infantry would have wanted to be right next to them–and especially with a walking “incendiary bomb” in their midst?
I’ve also read in other books that you didn’t want to be next to tanks, as they tended to draw fire, and if they got hit, the concussion alone could kill a man. Of course, in street scene dios, figure placement might be a little more forgivable, but in a Field scene in the heat f battle, I think you might be stretching the plausibility just a bit?
Might not necessarily want to call it “Kursk” in the name?
I grew up next to an old gentleman in Northern Virginia, who had been working for the U.S. Government in some capacity unknown to me, since the 50’s. I knew him only as Mr. Karl. He had been in the Waffen SS (I never asked which unit) and on occasion, would tell me “War Stories” about fighting what he referred to as the “Bolsheviks”, in stifling heat and deadly cold - for 3 years. He told me about the Russian “Tank Destroyer” Dogs with explosive harnesses on, something I still have a hard time believing. He told me about the reckless advances he and his “Komrads” made throughout the war, destroying T-34’s with hand-applied explosives early in the war, and with panzerfausts later on. He told of going into local battles that lasted for days at a time, where literally every man in his Company were either killed, missing or wounded. Mr. Karl spoke of advancing while using “panzers” as cover from machine gun fire, the armor commanders running up to and sometimes over or through the machine gun position, the infantry pouring into the breach created. There was a cavalier attitude of superiority and recklessness in battle among the Waffen SS and the armor and figures depicted in this diorama are meant to represent that.
* I’m a little worried about your layout though–just from a purely technical point; infantry in the wide open fields of Kursk would not have been “using a Stug for cover”. In fact, most likely they would have been avoiding getting too close to any armor there at all.
- They did in fact use tanks for cover while advancing, I have not only read accounts stating this but have spoken to a Waffen SS Mann that was there. As far as wide open fields at Kursk, that is the general assumption but there were woodlots, villages with trees, water courses, ravines, etc. - the entire area was not steppe. Bottom line is, we can’t see what is behind, beside or in front of this chunk of battlefield being represented in this diorama - for all we know, there may be blocking high ground preventing anything but immediate defense.
* In it, he stated: WOLFGANG K: “At Kursk, it was four days. And that was not very fun. The Germans faced for the first time, HUGE numbers of T-34s dug in – up to the turret. And that’s a bad deal – very bad. Number one, they are hard to see. Number two, they are hard to hit. And number three, they had already pre-determined distances to targets. “You know that they have to come through there, over that hill is 1500 meters and over there is 1200.” They were WAY in the advantage, way in the advantage. That was a sad affair. We really took a beating.”
If you think about that, the Russin tanks were knocking the hell out of the Germans, and at pre-determined distances, I’m not so sure that the infantry would have wanted to be right next to them–and especially with a walking “incendiary bomb” in their midst?
- Perhaps in Herr Kloth’s sector there were T-34’s buried up to the turret, the Russians had adequate time to build a defense, three and four lines deep … but one can’t assume that this tactic was used throughout the entire region. I am certain that the Stug. and Infantry in this diorama would have used another tactic in their approach had there been the threat of long range fire from a 76mm or other gun. I agree, the thought of their cover being knocked out and blowing them up as well might have been a deterent - if that was the case. This is not the case.
* I’ve also read in other books that you didn’t want to be next to tanks, as they tended to draw fire, and if they got hit, the concussion alone could kill a man. Of course, in street scene dios, figure placement might be a little more forgivable, but in a Field scene in the heat f battle, I think you might be stretching the plausibility just a bit?
- Would tanks draw fire less in a street setting? The question is not what would happen to the Infantry if their cover were hit - I know as well as you that it would be a mess. The question is, “Should we advance into this machine gun fire and trenchline behind a Sturmgeschutz that has made it all of the way up here without drawing anti-tank fire, or should we advance without it?” - I’m following the Stug…
*Might not necessarily want to call it “Kursk” in the name?
- This is a diorama depicting a scene on the battlefield during the Kursk Offensive -
As you can see, the offensive covered an extensive area. Kursk Dio. - W.I.P. - is just the generic subject title, the actual title of this diorama is “Clearing the Trench”.
Thanks for your comments Doog, I can only hope that this has cleared up a few misconceptions.
razorboy
Well Done [:(] Good to see some progress, now that the Holidays are behind us. [Y] What you have so far is looking really good RB
As stated widely regarding this builds concept… It makes plenty of sense and should look good!
Thanks Indy,
I have nearly completed the trench construction today. Some touch up with Celluclay and paint as well as final weathering is still pending -
Next I will finish the O.P. roof, then it’s back to the Stug.III to finish her and the crewmen. I won’t finish the ground work until the Stug. & crew as well as the infantry are finished and have been assigned their final positions on the base.
razorboy
Well, it’s your dio, razorboy.Just remember that some would say that if you have to explain your scene or justify it, that that weakens your composition. It’s nicely laid out, and the elements are cool, but I’m just a stickler about composition–don’t take it personally! [:$]
I just know that I’ve read more than once that at least three things were guaranteed to draw more fire–tanks, groups of soldiers, and “high priority” targets like officers and flame thrower dudes, and that nobody liked being next to the flame thrower guys cuz if they got hit, more than likely they blew up in a ball of sticky, fiery mess.
I would have involved less soldiers–maybe three–and put the two on the opposite side of the tank from flamethrower guy…I also would have put a gun in the hands of that Russian, or make some more urgency on his part–I would think he would know that there was a tank coming up on him? .just my two cents. [:)]
I agree with not using the “KursK” name in the dio though!
Thanks for your comments Doog, I value your opinion. The Russian with the RPG does have a gun, it’s not in his hands for this pic. I am beginning to wonder if I should continue to post my W.I.P.'s - there seems to be a certain amount of second guessing and confusion when it comes to my original vision… and to be perfectly honest with everyone, I don’t handle criticism well at all … particularly when I know what it should look like and there are those who see a different scene befrore I can finish it. Well, perception is reality I guess.
Thanks Doog - No Worries,
Dave
Great work Dave! The trench is INCREDIBLE! Of course your tank and figs will look great as always…Wish I knew a little more about things as far as the critiques go…I just think it looks pretty dam cool! [;)] Keep on keeping on![:D]
Thanks for the support Steve. I learn something new everytime I build and this time, if I’ve learned nothing else, it’s not to give a storyline. I have gotten at least twice, the comment “A good diorama tells it’s own story” - “No commentary needed.” … or something to that effect. I assure you all that as soon as it is done, the story will become quite evident. In the meantime, no more commentary on my part… it apparently makes people uneasy.
Thanks again, SternO
rb
Dave,
Please don’t let criticism spoil your enjoyment of building, nor our enjoyment of seeing your fine work. Criticism is offered in the finest spirit of encouragement and the desire to see you sweep awards with this fine piece at any contest. That is, after all, part of the spirit of the forums–to improve and to learn. SOmetimes the road is smooth, sometimes a little bumpy. NO one is here to degrade your work–only to earnestly offer suggestions in order to always improve, You are free to disregard all comments at will! [:)]