Been doing A LOT of reading/research on carrier battles in the Pacific and have to tell you that while Midway gets all the attention and press, the Battle of Santa Cruz is much more interesting!!! Just sayin’…
Not disagreeing with you,don’t know a lot about Santa Cruz ,but have you read "Shattered Sword "by Parshall and Tully ? fantastic book on Midway,one of my favorite books.
I also have a love of the carriers.There was a great program on the History Channel the other day about the carriers in the Pacific.Can’t remember the title.
What book did you read and which are your favs???
Thought Coral was rather fascinating, being the first real carrier vs carrier battle…Talk about two blind guy swing sticks at each other and actually landing hits.
Midway was…a bit of a luckfest on scouting, but the odds were heavily stacked in favour of the Americans (code breaking, MORE planes etc). I think whilst total amount of force is slightly in favour of the US, the fact that any loss would be catastrophic for the US pacific presence might have played a role on the perceived Japanese superiority on the day.
That’s why I believe Santa Cruz is more interesting…it was more evenly matched and both sides got in their blows…the Japanese came real close to sinking both the Hornet and Enterprise!
Just finished Shattered Sword last month, and it is fantastic–much information from the Japanese side.
Another excellent book (and probably you know about it already–I’m new to the Pacific naval side of things) is The First Team, about the carrier air groups from Pearl Harbor through Midway. Very detailed but highly readable and keeps your interest.
Carrier Strike by Hammel is a great account about the battle of Santa Cruz…I, too, have read Shattered Sword and would recommend it as well, although like I mentioned, to me, Santa Cruz is much more fascinating as the two sides traded body blows until one “left the ring”…
Midway may have been when the Japanese were stopped in their expansion and a certain degree of parity was achieved, but the Japanese could have very well sank the last operational carrier the Americans had in the Pacific at Santa Cruz had a few minor things gone the other way…
Aircrew losses for the Japanese were highest at Santa Cruz than in any other carrier battle…it was also the last time they were able to mount the classic “anvil and hammer” attack…
Some food for thought. You are correct in that Midway stopped the expansion. Had the Japanese sunk 2-3 of our carriers at Midway and kept theirs intact, the Pacific campaign would have taken a much different turn. We would have had to fall back to Pearl and possibly to the West Coast. The war would have been most definitely prolonged and might also have affected our contributions to Europe and Italy.
That being said, the Guadalcanal naval campaign doesn’t get enough press. It’s always Leyte, Iwo and Okinawa. However the greatest naval battles between opposing navies happened in the Guadalcanal campaign. It wasn’t until Leyte that there were any further ship-to-ship battles.
It’s a poor day you don’t learn something.
Cogito ergo sum. Sum certus ergo sum falsus.
“I think, therefore I am. I am certain, therefore I am wrong.”
The other day I watched the animation Manstein posted on the Santa Cruz battle, rather interesting. I wikipedia’d it…did not really seem fair to me. [:|] It looked as USA was outnumbered as wiki has a chart showing loses and numbers. I will admit I dont know enough about the war other than what I saw on the video and wiki. Maybe I missed something. [:D] I found the chart:USA(left) Japan (right)
2 carriers, 1 battleship, 6 cruisers, 14 destroyers, 136 aircraft[1]4 carriers, 4 battleships,[2] 10 cruisers, 22 destroyers, 199 aircraft[3]Casualties and losses1 carrier sunk, 1 destroyer sunk, 1 carrier heavily damaged, 2 destroyers heavily damaged, 81 aircraft destroyed, 266 dead[4]2 carriers heavily damaged, 1 cruiser heavily damaged, 99 aircraft destroyed 400–500 dead|
Strength |
|---|
I think the chart’s just the fleet, but land based aircraft woudl’ve easily doubled the aircraft numbers. Japan is trying to launch an offensive on the established US bases in the area.
Japan also has this tendency to divide their fleet into various groups in an overly complex operation - partly they want to engage in gunnery duel so a two proned attack is preferred in order to inflict maximum damage. However it also divided up the screening force, eg battleships deserve their own escorts, so carriers has to contend with the left overs - rather than battleships being escorts of carriers.
It’s sad that Japan decided to build strike aircraft at the expense of ruggedness and armour which took its toll once they no longer had the numerical superiority - unlike europe where a downed air crew walks 10 km to the nearest friendly air base, in naval battle a downed aircraft most likely means dead crew.
The one carrier battle that hasn’t gotten any mention yet is the Battle of the Philippine Sea. I realize that the IJN was low on experienced pilots and were outnumbered (well, they picked this fight) but the losses it took in that battle were beyond catastrophic. It was the virtual end of its naval air arm. Between 550-650 Japanese planes were destroyed, three fleet carriers (two of these by submarines) and two oilers sunk and six other ships damaged against one damaged battleship and 65 aircraft lost on the US side. And, most of the US flightcrews were rescued after having to ditch after the long missions they flew. The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot’s 67th aniversary is this coming Sunday, June 19.
Just met a veteran that served in the navy from 39-45. Was on the Lexington during the attack on Pearl Harbor and when it was sunk. Said that the Lexington was sent to Midway “for support” because they heard “something was up with the japs”. And then ordered to stay there (midway) until after the attack ended. He said he didn’t like the navy much and enlisted in the army in '46 and served something like 15 years.
His story doesn’t jibe with history. Lerxington was moving USMC aircraft to Midway when the attack happened and was ordered to search for the Japanese fleet immediately afterwards, prior to delivering the aircraft.
That’s one of those fun situations where one just listens politely and enjoys the other things they bring to the table.
…the other thing to remember is that war itself with the Japanese was not really a surprise…many/most in govt and military thought it was just a matter of time…it was the manner in which it started that was the surprise…So, I’m sure every day from around '38 to '41 someone was saying, “Something’s up with the Japanese…”
True. It has kind of gotten lost in history. The Japanese had close to 500 carrier aircraft If I’m correct, we nearly double. But by this time, the tide had turned and it was one steady push to Japan. The japanese as said had mainly novice pilots and it showed. I think their over confidence came with all of the land-based aircraft they had. By 1944, our navy was huge with so many carriers and support craft. We also had the big advantage of radar on all our ships. Our fighters totally out-calssed anything they had. It really was a “turkey shoot”. It’s interesting that 2 of the 3 carriers lost were from submarines, not naval gunfire or airplanes. The Musashi was sunk by aircraft though.
Yep…
Probably longer than that. IIRC, War Plan Orange, which was essetially the blueprint for the drive across the Pacific towards Japan dated from the 1920s. It was modified in the aftermath of Pearl Harbor, but still essentially followed by Nimitz’s forces across the Central Pacific. The major change to the plan was the replacement of the Battleship line by the Fast Carriers as the primary offensive weapon.
As for myself, I am particularly fascinated by (aside from Midway) the Coral Sea battle. The first carrier clash. Blue Skies and Blood, by Edwin Hoyt tells the story in great detail. That battle essentaily set the way that things were going to happen in the rest of the carrier fights in 1942 and beyond.
Yes and no…Coral Sea was the “learning” carrier battle…mistakes were identified by both sides and they tried to avoid them agaon, although not always successfully…