I was playing Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord last night. “A Tiger Hunt”. After wasting 3 M26 Pershing, 3 M10, 1 M4A3(76), 2 M4A3(75), 2 M3 Stuart and 50 men in taking a small village and destroying 3 Tigers, 2 Panthers, 1 Wespe, 2 Stugs, 4 75mm guns and 7 half-tracks…I have positioned my remaining tanks and TD’s inside the village for an ambush against the incoming German reinforcements…lead by a lone King Tiger (who by the way was responsible for taking out 2 M26 and 1 M4A3(76).
At the entrance to the village I had an M4A3(75) in a corner alongside an M7 Priest. After bouncing off a couple of rounds at the incoming King Tiger, I decided to have my Sherman withdraw before the King Tiger gets into a firing position against it. I tried to do the same with the M7. However because of the positioning of the tanks and the narrow space, the M7 could not move back without allowing the M4 to completely move back. So I thought that the M7 was toast as the King Tiger is coming into view (about 85 meters). While the M4 isdoing a full reverese, the M7 remained stationary and just waited.
Surprisingly, when the turret of the King Tiger was in full view (I pressume that from the King Tiger’s point of view, the M7 is still hidden)…the Priest opened fire…and hit the turret. The turret was not blown off but the King Tiger was knocked out in flames.
The priest is a spg am I not correct ? They have huge guns that should be very capable of knocking out almost any armor , kinda like a m-109 against a M1 A2 , the m1 while much more armored than the spg would stand little chance against the huge shell of that gun, the HE version alone would blow the tank to shreads ! Luckily those guns are not used for that purpose , the m1 would probably lock in on it anyway and kill it soon before !
Tigerman: I guess my decision to withdraw my armor from the area was obviously reflective of my understanding that the M7 cannot hurt the KT. That’s why I was surprised when it knocked out the KT.
Spector: You are right, the M7 Priest (M7B1 in the game) is a Self-Propelled-Gun carrying a 105mm Howitzer. The point you raised is interesting.
well lets put it this way , and I am no ballistics expert by any means here , but the panzerfaust , bazooka , and panzershrek , were all capable of knocking out almost any armor of that time , the russian RPG’s so popular in afghanistan and iraq are capable of knocking out an abrams or any russian armor , those are tiny in comparison , but effective nontheless . Imagine the velocity required to launch a shell 12 miles or more , it must be just incredible , now that same shell fired point blank into a slab of steel , hmmmmmmmmmm , I would guess the steel would lose , but that is just a guess here .[:D]
Well to shed a little more lite on your question, A M7 could concievably do it depending on how close to the King Tiger it was, and were the round impacted on the turret. Now those are some pretty long odds I will admit but it could be done. If nothing else the crew inside the King Tiger was deffinatly hating life because I garuntee they had there bells rung when that 105 round bounced off the turret. Now what I am not sure of is whether or not there was a 105 AP round developed yet. I am just a FO in the National guard but I do believe nowadays the SPG’s carry a couple ap rounds just for emergencys. If someone else knows better please feel free to chime in.
A Priest is not very likely to kill a King Tiger with direct fire. However, a Priest shell plunging from a long range shot won’t have any difficulties penetrating the thin top of turret or top of engine armor. It may penetrate inside and explode the vehicle killing the crew.
In a direct fire shot it won’t punch a whole in the front or the sides BUT it may cause damage to the suspension, jam the turret and cause a major structural crack. The tank hit with direct 105mm fire may be basically split open like a banana and it happened many times in WW2 provided that direct hit was scored (which was highly unlikely).
A 105mm artillery shell fired at close range to a tank would simly piss the crew off and most likely bounce off the tank’s armor. Artillery, especially HE rounds are not designed to penetrate armor. All the above mentioned AT weapons work in a different way than an artillery shell. The Panzerfaust and RPG, which are very simmilar, work by launching a shaped charge grenade that, once detonated when it makes contact with the tank, creates a concentrated molten jet at about a pencil eraser sized spot that simply cuts a hole like a blow torch through the armor. This creates a large amount of flame and heat inside the vehicle and subsequently sets it on fire. The bazooka and panzershrek were both AT rocket launchers, like the modern AT-4 or Javelin, that fire a rocket with a shaped charge on the end that explodes on contact and works the same as the above RPGs.
An artillery shell explodes on contact or at a predetermined hight above the ground and throws shrapnel, chunks of sharp metal, in all directions, shredding anything softer than the shrapnel that it hits. It also creates an overpressure that trhrows light objects around and throws up dirt, and other natural objects. It will not usually penetrate armor.
Just one more question. Can an HE round fired at the said distance create enough explosive energy to damage or disable a tank such as in this case, a King Tiger?
I’ve heard on some website that the front manlet of any king tiger’s turret was never perced or punctered by any round or shell of any calaber during WW2. This means, out of the hundreds of King Tigers, no projectile ever went through the front plate. Seems plausible, it’s so thick! Don’t think so.
Gino, when I saw your name at the bottom i kinda figured you would have the answer. As a FO my only concern is directing the Fire. and nowadays what with Copperhead rounds I stand a better chance against armour instead of the lucky round on top of the turret.
Dwight question for you… What was your field artillery doing that close to the front anyhow???[:D][:D][:D] In most cases that kinda asset atleast knowadays anyhow is kept to the rear with the gear, and guys like me are up in the front lines directing it.
Good question, I am surprised that it took sometime for somebody to ask it. LOL.
Well, after clearing the town, I tought, I had taken care of all the German armor in the area and I have started moving my tanks into corners to ambush any incoming enemy. The first wave of counterattack was composed of mainly infantry and some halftracks. It was kinda difficult for the M4’s to kill infantry especially because the terrain was irregular approaching the town. So I moved one of my M7 in the forwar position (quite well-hidden actually…[;)]) to take care of this. And it did until that KT came along and chewed up my Pershings and an M4A4(76).
By the way, my spotter was in the second floor of a building when it was plastered by German heavy artillery fire. [:D]
If I did, I’d like to know how to do it again.[:D] Those pesky KTs can really mess up my armor.[V] And I would be more than happy to give them something in return.[:D]
Dwight I tmay have just pissed the Tigers and Panthers off, but I would be willing to bet the Infantry that was tagging along with those Tigers and Panthers wasn’t to happy.
With this game how effective is the mortor fire??? I know in the couple of games i have, (Steel Panthers1 and 3) its not really all that effective. More of a nusense than anything else.