BOSNIA SFOR 12 Humvee Variants- best kits?

Modeling Subjects Armor
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Gentlemen:

This is a funny question because I’m a Bosnia Army Vet that drove a Humvee there on SFOR 12, and manned the gun turret- I’d like to build a 1/35 model of “my” Humvee from 2002-2003, that I used with the 1/104th CAV, 28TH ID, and wondering which is the closest kit to replicate it.

Studying pics, I’m not clear which version Humvee we used- I assumed it was the M1025, but I’m studying old photos of mine from 2002-2003, and in the back seat of my Humvee, on the floor in the cargo area, it definitely had some left over, semi-circular racks mounted on the floor, just like would be used to mount a TOW missile- so I’m wondering if we had M1047 TOW Humvees with their TOWs removed?

The major difference I can see is the gun turret. On ours we had a post to mount an M2 “Ma Deuce,” just a post with a hole to clip the MG in with a sort of cotter pin. But when we rolled we only used an M249 SAW up in the turret, which got fun because the SAW hung loosely in this hole supposed to be for mounting a Ma Deuce- we just dropped the SAW bipod into this hole as an improvised mount, so if you didn’t hold on to that SAW while rolling, it could go flying!

Can someone teach me the big differences between the M1025 and the M1047? I already bought the Tamiya 1/35 M1047 TOW kit, and I’m wondering if the best way to model “my” Bosnia Humvee would be to use the body of the M1047 with the TOW fittings removed, and maybe take the turret ring from the Tamiya M1025?

The M1047 turret ring definitely has a different mount for the weapon then was on the ones we used on SFOR 12 in 2002-2003; it has a big diameter, short, wide ring that the TOW was mounted on. But studying my photos from 2002-2003 in Bosnia, my vehicle def. had a different weapon mount in the turret, a tall post, maybe a foot and a half tall, that we would drop the SAW in.

Guessing I could just build the Tamiya TOW version and omit all the TOW parts, and then build a simple mount for the SAW out of styrene rod?? Are there other major differences between the M1025 and the M1047?

Would love to hear some advice. Researching and building a model of “your” Army Humvee ten years later is really a strange experience…I can tell you all about obscure 1940 Blitzkrieg tanks, but not sure exactly what model Humvee we used in Bosnia in 2002, there have been so many modifications and variants to them!

Many thanks to all!

PS There are things the model makers have missed entirely. For one, the gunner only has a simple web strap to sit on- you can imagine how that felt, sitting up there up there after an 8 hour mission (numb!). So we took simple wooden boards the size of a playground swing, cut notches in them to fit the web sling through it, and added lots of pillow stuffing and duct taped it on the board! Still uncomfortable but better than “sitting” on a 3 inch wide web strap for 8 hours!

Also the radio in the Tamiya kit seems to be an older version, but we def. used a newer model SINGARS in our vehicles, and a lap top computer mounted on top of the radio, and a big GPS unit mounted on the front dash board by the shot gun seat- yet have never seen these things in 1/35 scale, so may be scratch building a lot to make it right.

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Tamiya makes the M1046, not M1047. The M1045/M1046 is the up armored TOW carrier with and without winch respectively. The most of the US Army uses the regular M966/M1036 TOW carriers. Same rides, with just the lack of the up armored portions.

The M1025/1026 is the standard hardtop HMMWV used by combat MPs and scouts. They were normally equipped with M60, M240, M2 or Mk-19. They had a smaller turret hatch and were not equipped with TOW capability.

So basically the M1025 has less armor and not TOW and the M1046 has more armor, the TOW and a winch. I believe the two kits are virtually identical except for the doors and weapons station. Yes, the radio inside is the old 12-series stuff and not the SINCGARS we used since the early 90s. The M1046 kit also includes the regular front bumper from the M1025 kit so an M1045 can be made from the kit.

Researching your ride is a daunting task. I’ve done it a few times before. My very first HMMWV I was temporarily assigned during REFORGER 1990 actually made it into kit form by Revell of Germany with my umpire markings.

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wow…id really like to know the follow up on this…is a build happening?..more research going on?..dont leave us hangin

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“Also the radio in the Tamiya kit seems to be an older version, but we def. used a newer model SINGARS in our vehicles, and a lap top computer mounted on top of the radio, and a big GPS unit mounted on the front dash board by the shot gun seat- yet have never seen these things in 1/35 scale, so may be scratch building a lot to make it right.”

All of these are available in either resin sets from Pro Art, or in plastic in the latest Bronco M1114 HMMWV kits.

As Rob pointed out, it sounds like you had either M1025 or M1045 Weapons Carrier HMMWVs. Either can be made from the Tamiya M1025 kit, or a combo of parts from both Tamiya kits.

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AUSTanker,

Your inquiry is complicated at best without seeing the photographs of the HMMWV you were in. First off with operations for SFOR, Sinai peacekeeping missions and combat operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, the US Army and Marine Corp found itself drastically short of basic armor Armament Carriers. I will explain the major HMMWV Armament Carriers/TOW Carriers in use at the time:

ARMAMENT CARRIERS

M1025- US Army standard armament carrier with basic armor (identifiable by ‘X’ pattern on the doors). These vehicles had a mount that could accommodate an MK 19 GMG, M2 .50 cal, M249 SAW, M60 or M240B.

M1026- US Army standard armament carrier that is the same as the M1025 but has a winch mounted on the front for self-recovery.

M1043- US Marine Corp version of the M1025. Obvious visible differences are taller air intake for engine and wading exhaust that extended up the driver side to the roof line.

M1044- US Marine Corp version of the M1026. Same features of the M1043.

Due to damage suffered by US HMMWV’s in Panama and Somalia, the DoD identified that the armor protection of the Armament carriers had to be improved. This led to the development of the M1109 Armament Carrier for the Army which saw very limited fielding and use in the Balkans region. While the interim M1109 was being introduced, the design for the M1114 HMMWV was being finalized with versions first going into service in roughly 2004.

TOW MISSILE CARRIERS

M966 TOW Carrier- US Army TOW Missile Carrier with basic armor (identifiable by ‘X’ pattern on the doors). Externally, if the TOW System wasn’t in place, the M1025/M1026 series was very hard to differentiate from the M966. The primary external difference was the turret rings. The M966 turret ring had an integral square holder for the missile guidance set. This square holder is absent from the M1025/M1026 turret ring.

The Marines used the M966 for a very short period of time before converting them to the M1045/M1046 TOW Missile Carrier (thus the Tamiya kit of the M1046). The primary difference between the US Army M966 and the US Marine M1045/M1046 was the up-armor package put on by the US Marines which is referred to as supplemental armor. The supplemental armor package is most readily identified visually by the ‘smooth’ armored doors as opposed to the ‘X’ pattern doors on the basic armor HMMWV’s.

The internal configuration of the TOW Carriers and the Armament Carriers were vastly different. The Armament Carriers primarily had storage brackets for the MG’s, ammo cans and water/fuel cans whereas the TOW Carriers had a rack under the hatchback that stored 6 TOW reloads. There were also storage brackets for the Missile Guidance Set, the TOW night sight and batteries to run the TOW system off of dismounted along with a few ammo can brackets. Keep in mind my explanation is simplified somewhat.

Now, with peacekeeping operations going on in several places, combat operations in Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq getting ready to kick off, the US Army found itself drastically short of Armament Carriers (non-TOW)in 2002/early 2003. So, the Army took many M966 TOW Carriers and provided them with the ‘bearing sleeve’ (the tall post, maybe a foot and a half tall that you referenced in your original post) to accommodate the mounting of the various machine guns in the turret ring. To properly mount your MG’s, you would have required an MK 64 or MK 93 weapon mount. Those would have been in short supply as well. The Light Infantry Battalion that I’m in now actually received some of these M966’s that were pushed into ‘Armament Carrier’ service. These M966’s came from an MP unit that was using them as Armament Carriers. I have walk-around photos of it on my website here:

www.hmmwvinscale.com/…/album

So, primarily what was done to the converted M966’s internally is that they removed all of the TOW specific storage brackets except the racks for ammo cans and jerry cans. You will see in my photos that the TOW component stowage labels were still in place. Also, the mounting bracket on the exterior of the turret ring for the Missile Guidance Set was removed.

I would bet the vehicle you used was a converted M966 that still had the storage rack in it for the TOW reloads. The Army being short MK 64/MK 93 vehicle weapon mounts would explain why you had to improvise with your M249.

There are two HMMWV dedicated websites that could be of use to you. One is my website which is www.hmmwvinscale.com. Another gentleman by the name of Kuba runs http://www.humvee-models.com. Kuba’s website is great and has much more information than mine. He has had it up longer and has help building it whereas my site is run by only me and I only add to it as time is available. Your challenge with his website is that it is based in Poland and is not in English.

Feel free to email me at minuteman1636@hotmail.com if you want. I would love to get copies of your photos for addition to my website and I can help you positively identify what type of HMMWV you were on. I also have a ton of spare parts and can possibly help you with parts needed for a kit conversion.

Let me know if I can help.

Best regards,

Brent Sauer (sgtsauer on Armorama)

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Here is some additional detail for the discussion above.

Armament Carrier turret ring

Bearing Sleeve (for mounting MG’s)

TOW Missile reload rack

TOW Missile Carrier turret ring