I figure that loads of you have already researched this issue - and that it would be a help to me and loads of others who will have the same question that I do… and yes, I’ve done a little research - but mostly I’m just lazy in that regard.
I’m building the 1/72 Italeri F6F-3 Hellcat and I’d like to do it in the tri-color scheme. (Dark Blue, Light Blue, White) I read on a review sight that the Italeri color call-outs were incorrect. Unfortunately they weren’t specific about how they were wrong.
Looking over some color photos I have of a restored Hellcat, and having seen many other pictures and other people’s models in tri-color schemes, I’m wondering if there were a few different tri-color schemes that were used on WWII US Navy or Marine A/C? I have seen Corsairs, Avengers and Wildcats that seem to be much more greyish blues. The pics I have of the Hellcat are more of a pure Blue. They seem too different to be the same scheme in various degrees of fading.
If anyone can shed any light on this it would be greatly appreciated. And if you can share actual paint manufacturer’s color names or “recipies” that you’ve cooked up… well… I’d be so overjoyed I’d give you an e-kiss ! [:-^]
Thanks in advance,
Chris
Gidday Bossman
The Blue should be pretty similar between aircraft when new but the paint might weather differently (maybe the ones you’ve seen that are blue-grey are older aircraft). Also the Aircraft manufacturers could have used different mixes (grumman sea blue could be slightly different to vought sea blue).
I dont really think you can go to wrong with the shade because the colour varies greatly when weathered. Aeromaster make a good sea blue so do testor-modelmaster. I am gonna try out Gunze colours on the F6F-3 I am working on at the moment.
Maybe add a bit of white to areas that wear more so you get a varied shade effect. check out this site to see what I am talking about. Its a beautiful model (and no I didn’t make it).
http://hsgalleries.com/f6f3sh_1.htm
Early in the war US navy aircraft used a blue-gray over light grey scheme, maybe this is the other scheme you have seen. Also on grumman tri-colour aircraft the line between the dark blue and light blue ran in a straight line up the side of the aircraft where as on vought aircraft (corsairs) the dark blue curved down to meet the leading and trailing edges of the wing.
hope this helps.
For my F-6F Hellcat, I use Gunze Navy Blue(H54) for the upper wings, tail, and upper fuselage; for the mid-fuselage I use Gunze Intermidate Blue (H56) and white for bottom.
Is non-specular sea blue the same colour as the dark sea blue used overall later in the war? If so, in Humbrol it’d be white (34), intermediate blue (144) and non-specular sea blue (134),. The latter is now discontinued, but maybe if you’re lucky as me you can find a dusty old model shop with old stocks hidden under a layer of filth.
keith-a
The non-specular you refer to a Navy speak for flat (low reflectance) paints. The Technical Orders (TOs) of the period refer to non-specular, semi-gloss and gloss paints. Most color were apparently available in these three formulas but a few colors were available in one or two of them (Intermediate Blue seems to be a flat color only)
As far as the differance in the paint colors on different aircraft, as pingtang says, its most likely weathering. Lot of factors come in here - differences in origional paint formula from different paint manufacturers, method of applying paint (factory application vs. field application, alitude the a/c operated (more ultra-violet rays at high altitude - uv plays havoc on paint) etc.), atmosphere aircraft operated in (dry, humid, hot, cold, salty etc). Because of these, all paints weather to one extent or another. Most guys represent this by adding a few drops of white to lighten the final results. However, everything I’ve read would indicate that the blues the Navy used faded and changed to a greenish tone. I,ve never seen it in photos but have read reports by Japanese pilots claiming to have fought light green Hellcats and Corsairs late in the war.
Note on the tri-color scheme applied to single engine tactical aircraft (fighters, torpedo bombers, dive bombers , scouts etc). There were apparently two different ways to apply the non-specular blue to the top of the fuselage. In one, the line between the non-specular sea blue and the intermediate blue is a more or less straight line running from the nose to the base of the vertical stabilizer passing 2 or 3 inches below the cockpit. In the second the line runs from the nose to a point just above the leading edge of the wing, at which point it curves down to meet the LE. The line at the aft runs from the base of the vert. stab to a point just above the trailing edge, curving down to meet it. Can’t seem to find a reason for the two schemes, but they definatly exist so you need to research which was applied to the plane you are modeling.
Hope this helps a little.
For Navy tri-color schemes, I use Model Master enamels, Dark Sea Blue, Intermediate Blue & Flat white. These colors match photographs quite well, although weathering in the ocean, salt air environment, took it’s toll. On Corsairs, another difference between it & the Hellcat is that the undersides of the outer (folding) wings were often painted in Dark Sea Blue rather than White. I think this was so the AC would be less visible on deck with folded wings, but it didn’t seem to be a practice on the Hellcat.
Aircraft with sideways folding wings (F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, and TBF Avenger) had the entire underside of the wings painted white. This is because, when folded, the wing was slanted so that the underside was angled down, and was not readily visible from above.
On upward-folding wing aircraft, the underside of the folding area was painted Intermediate Blue, as this side was facing up when folded, but down when flying.
I use Model Master Acryl paints for my many U.S. Navy WWII aircraft. I use Flat White, Intermediate Blue, and Dark Sea Blue. For the tricolor scheme, I lighten the Dark Sea Blue with a little Intermediate Blue because it looks a little dark to me. When doing the Glossy Sea Blue overall scheme, I use it straight from the bottle. Usually I add a few drops of Dark Sea Blue to the Intermediate Blue as well, because it looks a tad gray to me.
Thanks to all you guys for the input ,
And I got the added bonus of all the info on the lines where the colors meet ! You guys are great. And thanks for the link pingtang - what a beauty.
As promised… [:-^] I know… it’s not much of a reward, but I’ll try to return the favor sometime.
I didn’t mention that I did go out and purchase some MM Dark Sea Blue a while back - and I tested it on a scrap piece. (MM is the easiest for me to get here) Like you Ian, I thought the Dark sea blue looked too dark. I’ll probably just tone it down by taking your mixing suggestion till it looks good, in addition to the one part white for every 3 or 4 parts color that I usually add when I’m doing 1/72 scale.
Thanks again,
Chris
One other thing I forgot to mention, most Hellcats in the Tri-colour scheme had a small scallop of white under the vert.stab(see the pics in the link above). The diferent methods of applying the sea blue that qmeister mentioned were between grumman and vought aircraft (Hellcats mostly used the straight line, however some used the other scheme if the paint was applyed in the feild).
It may not be as much the manufacturers’ methods of applying the camoflage as the different contours of the aircraft themselves. In general, the Nonspecular Sea Blue was applyed to upward-facing surfaces (top of wings, stabilizers, fuselage) Intermediate Blue on the sides (of fuselage, and vertical stabilizer and sometimes leading edges of wings and stabilizers) and white on the undersides (wings, stabilizers, lower fuselage, and areas in the shadow of the wings).
If you notice, the F6F has very vertical sides, while the F4U has a more rounded fuselage.
Polly Scale acrylics, which are supposedly made by the same people who did the Aeromaster range, do Non-Specular Sea Blue and Intermediate Blue in their range.
These colours did weather quite considerably, especially under tropical conditions. One source states that as the sea blue faded it tended to take on a grey-violet hue. Another source states that the Corsairs of the RNZAF, because they were operated from coral islands, became a faded greyish pink colour. Also, aircraft being repainted in the field were repainted in a variety of non-standard schemes depending on available paint stocks. The only answer unless you are modelling a factory fresh machine is to study photos of the particular machine you want to model, but failing that, if you take an educated guess, you would have to be extremely unlucky to be proved wrong.
As for those aircraft painted overall blue, Glossy Sea Blue did not appear as an ANA standard until August 1946. One opinion I have seen is that the early examples of a gloss finish were achieved by simply using gloss lacquer over existing Sea Blue paints.
i just don’t understand. why in the world would the navy use such hard colors for their planes? Didn’t they know how much trouble it was going to be 63 years later to match them on our models. They should have just went with blue and white.[:D]
You clearly don’t have an understanding of how many shades of white there are. And don’t get me started on non specular light gull grey, FSN 36440…
And thanks to the rest of you guys who added stuff too…
B25fan - I don’t know why those guys chose such hard colors to match either -
But “THEY’RE” STILL doing it ! (whoever “they” are)
Armed with handfulls of color swatches - I still cant match the beige in my living room !
Italeri uses the Original MM line for their colors which don’t have many WWII colors. The MM II line has the correct colors.
By the way, Polly Scale (Floquil) were the manufacturer for the Aeromaster paints until Testors took over as management and pull the plug on doing OEM paint for Aeromaster. Testors and Floquil must have been owned by the same holding company (RPM) for over 25 years, but for some reason in the late 90’s (forget which year) Testor took over operations of Floquil.