Hey gang,
I’m finally getting close to the painting stage of my Fortress and I’m wondering which paint is considered to be the closest in shade. I have some Tamiya acrylic olive drab, but it is entirely way too dark. It looks pretty good on the bombs, but as a fuselage color, it looks off. So which color/manufacturer would be the best for this application?
Thanks,
Fred
Actually Tamiy’s OD is a very good match for fresh Olive Drab 41, the color most B-17s came from the factory painted in. You could weather yours using some Tamiya dark yellow or buff to suit your taste.
Fred, I frustrate a lot with OD shades too, but based on what I think I know so far the Tamiya OD is pretty close for US aircraft in WWII. ANA 613 is lighter and was specified during WW II but I am given to understand that the war was over before it was very much in use.
Here is a link that may help:
http://www.mil-mod.nl/html/featod.html
Robert Archer says OD 41 came into use in fall 1941 and was used on B-17’s. It is a darker shade than we are used to seeing on models, but many of the WWII color pictures I have seem to support the darker color. 34087 is much lighter, and so is ANA 613.
Well, how about that? Learn something new every day [8D].
Guess I’ll just get a fresh bottle as I don’t have enough to cover the entire plane and I don’t want to chance shade issues due to different batches.
Thanks, gang!
-Fred
Oh yeah, you definitly have the change in shade issues to worry about! I had a batch of Tamiya OD that was darker than sin. Next bottle I bought was what I’m used to seeing for Tamiya’s OD. It was so crazy. Just goes to show you how much a particular color can change! And that this sort of thing could happen in the factories too. Maybe using two shades would be beneficial? Hmm…
I had an issue with Tamiya’s OD on a P-61… There were these goofy color swirls in the black plastic and the Tamiya OD didn’t cover them… I sanded the finish, then shot a clear enamel overcoat, then shot the Tamiya again, and it was acceptable, if not perfect…I decided then that I wouldn’t be using Tamiya anymore for color-coats on dark plastic or any plastic with swirls… It was also too dark for Forts, I felt…
For my B-17s, I use Testor’s MM OD with 10% MM Radome Tan added… That seems to make the OD look pretty good for the Fort, a bit of sun-fading as it were… The early OD was one that color-shifted to almost a purple, but I haven’t figured out how to mix that one yet…
OD paint tended to fade pretty quickly on the B-17. I like to use Floquil Rail Brown from the Railroad colors’
Here’s my 1/48 B-17C
Air Force Colors Vol.2 by Dana Bell mentions that Dark Olive Drab was prone to extreme fading, generally bleaching to a buff or brown color, though some manufacturers produced paints that faded to a weak green or a greenish gray.
If you have clear color reference of your B-17 subject, check if it is brownish or greenish.
For the brownish olive drab I’m using Gunze #12. For the greenish olive drab I’m using Revell or Humbrol Matt #66. I am not familiar with their equivalents with the other brands.
Hope this helps
Hans, like said above Humbrol Dark OD 66 is a good OD with a bluish/purplish hue, or try Model Master Green Drab 34086. Dark with more of a reddish brown hue.
Thanks Stik… Humbrol paints are unavailable in this area, and I’ve never tried them anyway… I know I could get 'em on-line though, but I kinda shy away from on-line paint-ordering, although I DID take the plunge and order the Valejo face-painting set… So many folks are swearing by them I thought I’d best “step outta the cave and stop fearing the Sun” and give ‘em a shot. Haven’t had the courage t’ try 'em yet though, lol… I fear change…[:D] But I may try 'em anyway… I’ve seen the old OD on different aircraft, but they were either in the PTO or N. Africa/MTO IIRC… ALthough… There’s that one shot of a P-51B/C that has that paint in a camo-pattern over a NMF and it looks positively purple… Can’t recall the Pony’s name at this time though, I gotta hunt around… I’ll know it when I stumble across it again, lol… It’s in one of my books that can’t recall the title of either…
I do have the MM Green Drab, though it doesn’t look right to me when comparing the colors photos of the Fort (along with “Texas Raiders” paint job)… The paint for the CAF B-17 was custom-mixed for her at Boeing to US milspecs for WW2 OD back in the 90s, when she was totally refinished (with the new nose art added at that time) and I matched up the MM OD/Radome Tan stuff from her color chips, suitably “scaled-down”… However, the Green Drab works well on P-38s, B-25, B-26s, and P-40s if I do say so m’self and I’ll be sure to use it o the next Revellogram Liberator (THAT one didn’t look right at ALL with the OD/Tan mix)…
Kinda odd for me, as I usually ain’t that particular about USAAF ODs as long as they get close, but the Fort just seems to cry out for extra work for some strange reason, lol… Must be the size of the kit or something… I gotta decide on the OD I’m using on the B-29 as well… (Doing a YB-29 in OD/Neutral Grey one of these days)
I personally take advantage of the feact that these planes were produced during a fast paced production run. As said above about the tamiya paint batch shade difference, I take advantage of that. I dont spend too much time trying to the shade exactly right, because there really is no one exact shade for the B-17. There were so many variables, multiple manufacturers, batches, etc… They were not going to hold up the delivery of the much needed aircraft because the shade isnt perfect, so I try to build in a similar fashion. I personally use MM enamel OD mixed with something, I’ve used flat white, flat yellow, desert tan and a few others. I’ve even used it straight. I just try not to over think it.
Mkhoot…I’m gonna have to pick your brain about that B-17 C/D conversion, I’ve got that kit coming. I’ve never done vac form so I’m nervous about it. Where did you get the props? Any advice, tips etc would be greatly appreciated, you can PM if you like.
I think it made a difference in OD shade-consistancy as to where they were built too, Boeing, Douglas, or Vega…
On a semi-related note, I’ve decided that one of mine will be redone as a Dornier 200 with a PB-1G joining up too…
Exactly! This is why I dont worry about the shade all that much. As long as the ends up being something plausable. Dont over think it.
Having worked in a paint factory before as a research and development engineer, we found out that some colors fade faster than others. Yellow is one of them and since it is a major color in ODs, the olive drab will really have a tendency to fade faster than other colors.
Just out of curiousity then, how did the early USAAC’s OD shift to that purple hue?
I agree with you. There are so many variables. A lot also depends on whether one is building factory fresh or war weary or anywhere in between.
I like to weather and have found that washes, filters, etc. can do much to the fade or darkness of a color.
It mostly comes down to what looks right to you. Are you modeling something with a couple sorties under her wing or something with a nose full of bomb tallys.
You can also use the different shades by painting some panels darker then others to give a repaired or replaced look.
Like B-17 guy said “Don’t over think it.”. Remember too, reference photos have variables such as lighting , type of film, age of photo,etc. T
hings that can change the colors in the pic from what the color actually looks like.
This is going to seem way out there–but Tamiya’s Khaki Drab for me really replicates that worn OD look of a plane that has been through a lot since it’s last paint job. You could also vary the shades to represent panels or whole parts that have been replaced!
It also replicates sage green on modern flight suits pretty well. I also used it on a couple of vietnam chopper pilots I used on a Revell 1/32 scale AH-1G.