FWIW to y’all, I got to thinkin’ about the fact that only US Aces were named as such with five kills… The Luftwaffe, RAF & RN, British Commonwealth, Free French, and Soviet, along with most other European air forces didn’t until they had 10 confirmed kills… Another thing to consider is that many 8th AF aces were NOT aces after the war until it was confirmed that they had 5 Air-to-Air kills. The 8th let pilots count air-to-ground kills after Jimy Doolittle took command for the purpose of kill markings on their aircraft…
Hans I would like to enter with Lt Lee Archer’s P-51C of the 302nd FS part of the famed Tuskegee Airmen. He is the only recognized ace from that famous group, attaining that status 50 years after the conflict. His first kill was reclassified as a half kill by the USAAC to avoid having a black ace. An Air Force review of air to air victories in 1990s restored that kill thus giving him 5 confirmed kills.
The kit is the AM P-51C Tuskegee Airmen. What say you von Hammer?
I knew this one would come up… According to the American Fighter Aces Association( http://www.americanfighteraces.org/about.htm ), Archer still hasn’t been awarded a 5th kill, although he’s been been given the status of “Honorary Ace” … A lot of websites say he was awarded the 5th kill, but Archer himself has denied having 5 kills, and the AFAA agrees… Here’s what the Official USAF records say:
18 Jul 1944 2 Lt Lee A. Archer 302 FS 1 ME-109
12 Oct 1944 1 Lt Lee A. Archer 302 FS 3 ME-109s
http://www.au.af.mil/au/afhra/avc.asp
Go there, and click on Aerial Victory Credits part way down the page. Fill in Archer in the first selection line, and specify Begins With as the criteria. You will get a list of anyone named Archer and their victories. It shows Lee with four victories and gives the dates.
So, I have to say, “No” to Colonel Archer’s inclusion…
Sooo… What else ya got?
Hans,
I did check the AFAA website first and found that he had 4.5. The Osprey Tuskegee Airmen book states that the USAF reviewed the records and awarded him the fifth kill. A quick check of the AF.MIL site shows no record of that review but it does have an interview with Col Archer in which he states that he never applied for nor claimed the fifth kill nor did he think there was any discrimination.
I think the Osprey book has a problem with addition. After reading all the textual references to Archer, it says that the disputed half kill was on his three kill day. But those three are already accounted for. Archer said the half kill was his first so it appears that the Osprey book is incorrect.
Still, it would be a cool subject. Maybe I could be an “honorary Group Build member” ?[:D]
Greetings…I’m Ron Brewington, former National Public Relations Officer, Tuskegee Airmen, Inc. (TAI)…In regards to the status of Tuskegee Airman 1st Lt. Lee Archer as an ace, please note that Archer is currently listed with the Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell AFB, Montgomery, AL as having only 4 confirmed kills and is NOT listed as an ace.
There were two other Tuskegee Airmen who got four kills besides Archer: Capt. Joseph D. Elsberry and Capt. Edward L. Toppings.
There were no Tuskegee Airmen aces during WWII.
For more information about the Tuskegee Airmen, please see: http://www.tuskegeeairmen.org
Thanks for the help, Ron… I did some work on the CAF’s “Project Redtail (P-51C “Tuskegee Airmen”)” some years ago and had a brief meeting with Colonel Archer…
As for an “Honorary” build, I’d still have to say no… Archer’s not an Ace… Perhaps you could start a Group Build featuring the Tuskegee Airmen for Febuary, which is Black History Month?
Ok, finally got back to my “Old Crow” (AiraCrowbra?") and attached the wings… Adding the interior parts for the intakes, along with the PE screens turned out to be a waste of time as A: You can’t see the screens, and B: They cause the upper wing halves to set too high up to close, even with clamps… So, I got out the trusty Dremel and ground off the tops of the intakes (shooting one of the screens into the Hinterlands in the process) which allowed the wing halves to close… Still had to use a skoshi bit of putty though.
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As you can see from the above, there was a pronounced gap in the left wing/fuselage joint, which I filled with a little bead of Testor’s Putty, thinned with alcohol. I later cleaned out the panel lines that got a little putty in 'em and also filled those shrinkage cracks… I also had to fill the joint at the top of the carburator air intake due to the fuselage halves beig one shorther than the other…
The right wing joined nice & tight, but on the underside, the joint between the trailing edge of the flap and the fuselage was pretty wide, so it got filled, as well and I also cleaned out the flap/fuselage joint…
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I’m starting on the main wheel wells tonight as they are void of any detail, just some strip & sprue in order to give them some interest…
Coulpe of things about this kit… There’s some alignment issues, namely the fuselage halves… The left one is shorter that the right, meaning I have to sande the rudder trailing edge to match the right, and this is olso what caused the gap in the flap/fuselage underside joint… Also, the trailing edges of the wings are way too thick and I should really have sanded them thinner… I was just too lazy to do it…
Overall, I’m not all that impressed with the Eduard 'Cobra over the Monogram/Revell version, and I’m not saying it because of my well-known bias towards Monogram… BUT… You’d think that with the price of Eduard’s 1/48th kits, it’s gonna be a better fit than the Revellogram, but I’m not seeing it… Sure, there’s a bit more detail in the 'pit, and there’s the PE and decal selection, as well as flattened tires, but that’s not really enough, IMHO… Glad I didn’t have to pay for this one, lol…
PS:I also noticed that there’s a four-bladed prop option for this bird, meaning that there’s a chance for a different mark of Airacobra (I can’t remember which model it was, only that it never went into propuction)…
Pordoi Great start on your P-47, the pit detail is awesome keep up the good work. Thanks for the well done history lesson also, makes this group much more interesting I think.
Wabashwheels your Spitfire is looking good also, cant wait to see more of her. I still have to build a nice Spit one day.
Hans von Hammer What can I say I always like seeing your builds progress. Looks like you are forcing that kit into submission, cant believe the filler needed in the wing roots on a high end kit. Love your work on the office, and cant wait for more WIP pictures.
Satch_ip I would be interested in a Tuskegee Airman GB later in the year, sounds like a good idea to me.
Heh… Well, I started to detail the wheel wells, and had put in some strip when I noticed that the instructions called for parts I missed… Turns out there were wheel wells that I was supposed to add BEFORE I glued the wing halves together… D’OH!!!
But, no worries… Rather than pull the wings apart, I just sanded off the edges that were supposed to mate with the tops of the wells until they fit right into the wells, then I glued them in place… It only took a few extra minutes… I got BIGGER problem though, and that’s that I’m missing the right stabilizer…
Hey Hans, nice recovery from the wheel well SNAFU. But sorry, don’t have any advice on how to deal with the missing stabilizer. Was it just not included in your kit?
A quick update on Neel Kearby’s Fiery Ginger. The construction phase is mostly complete. Just a few fiddly bits (e.g., antenna, nav lights, etc.) to add after painting; otherwise, I’m certain that I’d just break them off during the process. The P-38 drop tanks are from a Hasegawa kit and were a gift from forum member RadMax. I snipped off the locating pins and sanded the pylons to fit the curvature of the P-47 wings. I think it looks pretty good. Also, the pics of Kearby’s aircraft doesn’t show a hard point on the belly so the kit parts were snipped, filled and sanded. Just about ready to mask off the pit and wells and give her a coat of primer, check and smooth the the seams if necessary, then begin painting. Just a few pics:
and Neel ready to go…
Don
Thanks, although it was more a “FUBB” than a SNAFU, really… (F***ed Up Beyond Belief for you civilians and the folks in Rio Linda, CA) Had several with this kit, not the least is the missing stab… I honestly don’t know if I lost it or it was never there (my bench is rather"busy", shall we say…). When I first got it, there was no clear parts tree (meaning no canopy, landing light, gunsight, or doors) and Eduard never replied to me, even after numerous emails, about a replacement tree… Luckily, a fellow forum member sent me a set (Dunno where he got it and he asked to reamain anonymous… I like that, lol…)…
Hey Hans (and everyone else)
Really impressive progress (and research) so far.
Hans, I wanted to let you know that I am still thinking of jumping into this GB with the P-40 of Pappy Boyington, but I am not going to commit right now. I’m a little burnt out on GBs these days and don’t want to fall in the trap of joining more than I can possibly finish. I’ve got one GB that I am wrapping up and another project to complete, then, if time permits, I’ll jump into this one.
Bbrowniii, what scale and kit were you contemplating? I was going to do Boyington’s AVG P-40 if I can find the right decals. I have the old Monogram P-40B but the number on the sheet is 14 and Boyington’s first crate was 21.
I have a plan B if you want Boyington.
satch
I have a question about aircraft assignments. In WWII squadrons, were pilots assigned a specific aircraft or did they fly whatever mount was available. I am talking more about junior guys more so than the established aces.
If aircraft were assigned randomly, would the correct squadron markings be sufficient for this build, excluding named aircraft of course.
satch
In most cases, the aircraft were assigned to specific pilots, but the pilots also flew whatever aircraft was available. That means that if you were slated to fly, but your aircraft was deadlined, you didn’t get out of the mission, you just flew another one… A good example of this is Duke Cunningham & Randy Driscol’s thre-MiG kill day in May 72, the sortie that made them Aces… They were flying “Showtime 100” (NG 100), which was the CAG’s (Commander Air Group, the guy who owns ALL the aircraft in the Carrier Battle Group) assigned aircraft, rather than their assigned Phantom, “NG 107”… “Showtime 100” carried the CAG’s name on the front canopy rail, while the rear one had the name “Ensign I.M. Fearless”, since the CAG didn’t have a regular RIO…
Another example is the F4U-1 Corsair “Lucybelle” (Some will say it’s Lulubelle, but that’s been more or less disproven since) that was assigned to Pappy Boyington. That aircraft was hastily marked for publicity shots of Boyington, and was never assigned to him, he never flew it, it was never even assigned to VMF 214, nor did it ever fly any combat missions…
A fair number of named, or personal aircraft were lost while being flown by pilots who had to “borrow” that aircraft… But in most cases (I’m speaking USAAF here) a pilot would be assigned his own aircarft upon arrival, and it would be “his” aircraft until it was lost or worn out… A good example of this practice would be Tommy McGuire’s five different “Pudgy” P-38s… The US Navy and USMC didn’t do that so much, especially the land-based units…
So to answer you question, the answer is, “I don’t know”… You’d have to give me a specific situation…
[quote]
Hans, I wanted to let you know that I am still thinking of jumping into this GB with the P-40 of Pappy Boyington…snip … I’ve got one GB that I am wrapping up and another project to complete, then, if time permits, I’ll jump into this one.
No sweat… Just lemme know, Brownie…
No law against the same pilot & plane, Satch… It’s your call…
Nope, satch, you take him… Like I said, I’m a bit of a ‘hanger’s on’ around this GB. If I get to it, I will, but otherwise, at least you’ll get him done.
I’ve got the Revell Nieuport 28 which comes with markings for Eddie Rickenbacker. It looks like he got his 1st six kills in this plane, and then moved over to the SPAD XIII for the remaining 20. Would that be acceptable even though he did fly it as an ace? As far as I can tell the same plane was used for those 6 kills, so he doesn’t really have another pre-ace plane.
If you can do the single-gun version… Rickenbacker’s Nieuport 28 initially was equipped with only one gun since there weren’t enough guns to go around the 94th to equip every aircraft with two…