B-24 research query

Modeling Subjects Aircraft
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Hi! I’m a shipmodeler most of the time, but I’m taking the liberty of straying into this forum in the hope that an aircraft expert with a big library can help out with a research question.

My wife’s family has been doing some research about her uncle, 2nd Lt. James Biggerstaff. He was the bombardier of a Liberator that got shot down over Dwingeloo, Holland on January 11, 1944. The pilot, radio operator, right waist gunner, left waist gunner, and tail gunner were taken prisoner; the copilot, navigator, flight engineer, and ball turret gunner were killed, as was Lt. Biggerstaff, the bombardier. He was initially buried near the crash site by the Dutch; his body was later exhumed and re-interred at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery in St. Louis.

Several members of the family have gotten interested in this story, and I’m toying around with the idea of building a 1/72 model of the aircraft in question, using one of the Academy/Minicraft kits. My brother-in-law, using various websites and the National Archives service, has come up with some information about it, but not quite enough.

It was a B-24H, serial number #41-28593, assigned to the 712th Squadron, 448th Heavy Bombardment Group, 20th Combat Wing, 2nd Air Division, 8th Air Force. The group was stationed at 8th USAAF Base #146, in Seething, England. The plane’s nickname was “The Prodigal Son.”

Roger Freeman’s book, The Mighty Eighth, gives the basic data about the unit, and some information about the color scheme. On the basis of the date of the plane’s last mission, it’s clear that it was olive drab on top and medium grey below. The first two letters of the fuselage code were CT, and the group marking on the fins and rudders was a light-colored (white?) circle with the letter I in it. The squadron code letter, K, apparently appeared inside a slightly darker (yellow?) outlined triangle below the white circle.

Freeman’s book contains one photograph showing the aft half of a plane from the same squadron, “Piccadilly Pete,” taken three months after “The Prodigal Son” was shot down. So far that’s the only photo of an aircraft from the 448th that I’ve found.

There are two obvious gaps in the information I’d need to build a reasonably accurate model: the individual aircraft code letter and the nose art (if any). It’s also possible, of course, that the plane carried some additional individual markings.

If any of you folks happen to have access to a photo of that B-24, I’ll be most grateful. If the photo is in a published book, I’ll be glad to hunt for a used copy of it. If, by remarkable coincidence, anybody has an unpublished picture of “The Prodigal Son,” I’ll be happy to pay reasonable expenses of reproduction. Tips on relevant websites and other possible sources will also be most welcome. This isn’t a field where I really know what I’m doing.

Many thanks in advance for any help anybody can offer.

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ok I haven’t come on a pic yet, but here is the 448th website:

http://www.448bg.us/ in it they have an honor roll listing your wife’s uncle. Also some misc history etc… they have pics of one bomber but it is only nose shots…

Here is a GREAT place to post this same message… check out their forum, I am searching for my own great uncle here… they have historians, veterans and family members there more than willing to help. They have a topic for crew members search which might help bring up a pic.

http://www.b24bestweb.com/

Of course there is always this one, with its’ own forum: http://www.armyairforces.com/default.asp

and this one, it’s the US Air force military heritage site:

http://www.8thairforce.com

I am sure with as much detail as you have you will be able to come up with something… all I have is that my great uncle flew tail gunner, it was either a B-26 or B-24 depending on who you ask and he bombed Guam and said it was the worst fighting he had seen in the war… and still I get emails from people trying to help me figure it out!!!

Good luck and I will keep looking for ya, I figure maybe I’ll come across something for me maybe if I look for this…

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oh yeah, you might want to try this forum, the owner has an EXTENSIVE photo library. Post this under “Photo Files, Discussions and requests”

http://etoclub.proboards18.com/index.cgi

he could probably at least steer you to the right markings for the group if not the nose art itself…

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tho9900 - Many thanks! This is just the sort of thing I was hoping for - and would have had no idea how to find myself. I’ve already done some browsing on the sites you linked me to; they’re fascinating. One of them pointed me to a book about the 448th Heavy Bomb Group, and I found a used copy through the Barnes and Noble website; I’ll order it. I’ll also put a post on “b24bestweb.”

Thanks again. So far no pictures of The Prodigal Son, but who knows?

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yeah I thought I got lucky and found some decals for ya but they were for a P-51 [:(]

I’ll keep on looking too!

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Tom, thanks for the plug on the ETO site!

John, I did a quickie search through the library and found several shots of 448th BG ships from the period which you’re interested in. I haven’t taken a close look yet to see which of these may be from the 712th, but I’ll get them all scanned and post them over on ETO.

I did come across a bit of information which should be helpful, though.

The circle on the tail was, indeed, white with a black letter. The circle denotes the 2nd Bombardment Division, the letter ‘I’ denotes the 448th Bombardment Group. This marking also appeared on the upper starboard wing.

The 2nd Bomb Division did not begin applying squadron code letters to their aircraft until March of 1944, so ‘The Prodigal Son’ would not have carried the code ‘CT’ on the fuselage. Instead, the individual squadron was denoted by the geometric symbol below the serial number, in this case a triangle. The letter inside of that symbol was the individual aircraft letter.

When I get the images scanned I’ll post the link here.

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no prob Steve! gotta spread the word! [:)]

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Alrighty, here’s the link:

448th Bomb Group

Unfortunately I’ve found no photos of ‘The Prodigal Son’ and only two shots of 712th BS aircraft, including the one you’ve already seen. But you can get a general idea of what the aircraft in question probably looked like from these other aircraft.

Will keep looking…

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Looks like Schiffer published a book on the 448th…

448th Bomb Group (H), Liberators over Germany in WWII

You can find that same book as well as another on the 448th on Amazon.com. Here’s a page from the B-24 best Web site with links; fourth listing from the top:

http://www.b24bestweb.com/Books1-BG-445-493.htm

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Blackwolf3945 - Many thanks - especially for clarifying the squadron code letter story. That will simplify matters a bit. The fact that the aircraft got shot down relatively early in the strategic bombing campaign makes things a little simpler than they might otherwise be.

I found a used copy of the Schiffer book on the Barnes and Noble website for a reasonable price. According to B&N’s e-mail, the dealer has packed it and is going to mail it tomorrow.

It’s 1:30 a.m. here and a bit late to go surfing, but I’ll check out the ETO site tomorrow. Thanks again.

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Here are a couple more sites that might get you in touch with someone to help

http://www.2ndair.org.uk/archives/448bgcat.html

http://www.seething.org.uk/448th.html

Good luck on your project.

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Hello,
on August 21st 2004 the B-24J “All-American/Dragon and his tail” made an appearance at my local airport. I used this opportunity to get about 30 shot of it. (the other roll of film was for the B-17) some of the outside ,but many of the inside , landing gear and engines/propellers. although this is an earlier model of the plane it could be used for general reference if you are interested. despite being an amateur photographer I think they turned out pretty good. pictures of the B-17 are also available if anyone is interested.
since I don’t check this forum often, please send me an email.
P.F.

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Liberator Album B24s of the 2nd Air DivisionUSAAF by Mike Bailey and Tony North has several pictures of a/c of the 448th but I have not seen “Prodigal Son”. I am in the UK and bought it from a specialist supplier for £12.50. It is mainly photos but on the 448th it says the Group came to England -Seething - which I have visted many times in November 1943 and flew the first combat mission to Osnabruck on the 22nd November. The Group markings were apparently(?) the usual white disc on the upper starboard wingtip and on tail surfaces with a capital “I” within the disc. However the Group did not conform and adopted a squadron symbol to surround the call - letter on the lower half of the fin painted in deep yellow to conform with the call letter. 712 had a triangle. Later in the war many machines apparently flew without the Squadron Codes (CT for 712) . A photo of 41 -28711 taken in July 1944 seems to confirm this and there is an earlier one of 42 - 52606 at Seething with the Codes! Then there is a picture of an a/c from 714 taken earlier than Feb 1944without the Codes - but the symbol and call letter are there. It does seem that as is so often the case there was a lot of overlap and inconsistency and unless you can find someone who was there and who has a photographic memory it is improbable that the truth will ever be known.

Best of luck with your search. I will not visit Seething for a little while but when I do I will make further enquiries. It is jsut possible that they will have something in the Museum in the Control Tower. It is a very low key (but well run) affair.

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Many thanks to all for your help. I’m awaiting delivery of the Schiffer book on the 448th. Doubt if it will have any “Prodigal Son” shots, but one never knows.

Looks like the aircraft almost certainly didn’t have fuselage codes - and did have the white disk and “I” on the fins/rudders and upper right wing. A couple of photos I’ve seen also confirm the yellow triangle on the fins. So the big remaining question marks are the individual aircraft number and the nose art (if any).

The museum in the old control tower at Seething looks fascinating. My wife and I may be able to take a trip to England next summer; we’re thinking about paying that site a visit. The only problem so far (other than raising the money) is that the town apparently is so small that it didn’t make it onto any of the commonly-available maps. This is the first time I can recall the National Geographic Atlas failing me.

The prospect of visiting an out-of-the-way place with a small family connection may just resolve a bone of contention between my wife and me. I say the next time we go to England we should rent a car. She says she’s concerned that if she ever gets into a car being driven by me on the wrong side of the road she may never get out of it in one piece. Maybe the prospect of a trip to Seething will change her mind.

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John,

This doesn’t help you with the markings at all, but I figured you’d be interested in this info. I put this together using several sources, with the bulk of information coming from Mighty Eighth War Diary by Roger Freeman and Air War Europa: Chronology - America’s Air War Against Germany in Europe and North Africa 1942-1945 by Eric Hammel.

Given below is a summary of the operation in which the 448th BG was directly involved on 11 January, 1944. There was another target attacked by the 8th AF this day, but the 448th BG was not involved and I will not make mention of it other than to say that on this day the actions of Major James Howard of the 354th FG (IX Fighter Command, temporarily attached to VIII FC) resulted in his being awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor. He was the only fighter pilot in the ETO to receive the MOH.

January 11th, 1944 - 8th AF Mission 182 / VIII FC FO 216

As part of 8th Air Force Mission #182, second and third Bomb Divisions despatched 138 B-24 and 234 B-17 bomber aircraft (respectively) to strike aircraft-industry targets at Brunswick, Germany. This operation marked the first use of H2S-equipped B-24’s.

VIII Fighter Command Field Order 216 details 49 P-38’s and 322 P-47’s to provide escort.

Formations were recalled due to bad weather but the leading elements were near the target and 47 B-17’s bombed the primary. The remaining aircraft then attacked various targets of opportunity through holes in the clouds.

Some of these T/O’s:

Osnabrück
Bielfeld
Peine
Herford
Nienburg
Meppen
Lingen
7 other unnamed T/O’s

Sixteen B-17’s, two B-24’s, one P-38 and two P-47’s were lost.

Claims by the fighters: 2 enemy aircraft shot down, 1 probable and 2 damaged

Additional aircraft casualties: (not included in loss figures)

96th BG B-17 ditched in flames, crew rescued

392nd BG B-24 crash landed at Wendling due to battle damage, crew safe

Battle damaged 94th BG B-17 declared category E (beyond economical repair)

Units involved (losses in parentheses)

2nd Bomb Division - B-24:

44th BG
93rd BG
389th BG
392nd BG
445th BG
446th BG
448th BG (2)

3rd Bomb Division - B-17:

94th BG (8)
95th BG (1)
96th BG (1)
100th BG
385th BG
388th BG (2)
390th BG (1)
447th BG (3)

VIII Fighter Command

P-38

20th FG
55th FG (1)

P-47

56th FG
78th FG
352nd FG
353rd FG (1)
355th FG
356th FG (1) [2 enemy a/c claimed destroyed]
358th FG

Hope you find this interesting!

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Blackwolf - Most interesting indeed! Many thanks! I’ve got the first of the “Mighty Eighth” volumes, but the whole set is beyond me. This has turned into a fascinating project. One of these days I may actually get up the nerve to build the model!

Thanks again.

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Seething is 10 miles SE of Norwich. The village itself has little in the way of accomodation but you can stay in a variety of places not far from there. The airfield is a little way outside and not easy to find (I do not recall any sign posts) but is still used for private flying and the Tower museum is only open on certain Sundays. You might like to let me know and I will get info. for you + 'phone numbers for example. There are a number of other airfields in the area of course in various states of preservation with museums - all run by volunteers and thus open intermittently. Some of course are now back to farming but some of the parts of the runways and peri tracks are still easily visible - and some of the old buildings are still in situ. However many are now chicken houses! If you want a photo of the tower let me know and I can either send you one or email it - + part of the airfield. However the web site is probably as good as you will get. Don’t worry about the driving - many locals drive on what ever side of the road they choose and some of the roads are only a “car width” wide so you have no choice as to which side you drive on.

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Miduppergunner - My wife and I thank you very much! We may well take you up on your kind offer when the time gets nearer.

Mid upper gunner…Sounds like a Lancaster or Halifax connection?

Thanks again!

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The connection is an Uncle - died in 1942 over Essen, in a Halifax. By the way I cannot see the serial number you mention in the list I have, nor the name “Prodigal Son” either - is the number right - not that the list I have is comprehensive!!

P.S I see we have a bit in common - I also have been a ship modeller - worked in the draught room at the National Maritime Museum as a volunteer - wonderful place - draughts going back to 18th century - I also like classical music and photography (I seem to remember). I aso belong to the Society of Model Shipwrights who are a very knowledgeable bunch - apart from being craftsmen in the main - let me now if there is any info. you need but cannot get hold of - it is very probable they will have it!!

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My brother-in-law found the serial number. It’s on a document headed “Missing Air Crew Report,” a copy of which he got from the National Archives. It shows the serial numbers not only of the aircraft but of the individual engines and machine guns. He also located a “Casualty Questionnaire,” which was filled out by SSGT James V. Newton, the left waist gunner (presumably after he was repatriated).

The latter document is quite brief; I imagine it was filled out in a hurry - by a man who had other things on his mind than what had happened to him in a few minutes a long time earlier. The first page describes Sgt. Newton’s own recollection of the experience. (He apparently didn’t know whether the plane had been hit by flak or a fighter; he realized the plane was going down, and jumped.) Then there are five pages in which he tells what little he knows about what happened to the five crew members who didn’t survive. He didn’t know much about Lt. Biggerstaff (my wife’s uncle). In response to “Last contact or conversation just prior to or at time of loss of plane,” he wrote: “over interphone he called out fighters at 2:00 oclock high; before first attack.” Then, a couple of lines down, in answer to “where was he last seen?” Sgt. Newton wrote: “I last seen him before aboarding plane that day.”

Sgt. Newton’s remarks about the fate of the co-pilot, Lt. Harold R. White, are especially interesting: “Lt. White’s body landed in the back seat of an automobile in Holland. The people pulled in his parachute and drove on; that they found his crucifix and gave him a Catholic burial. I also heard a similar story while traveling through the ‘underground.’ The name not known then.” The Dutch are remarkable people.

In the field near Dwingeloo where the plane crashed there’s a small monument - a stone with a plaque on it. The text of the plaque is in Dutch, roughly translated as follows: “In honor of those crewmembers who died on January 11, 1944 in an air sortie aboard the American Liberator B-24 bomber, ‘The Prodigal Son,’” followed by the names of the dead. I’m not sure when the monument was put up, but I believe it was in the late eighties or early nineties. (My wife’s parents attended the ceremony.) I think several of the survivors were still alive at that time. (The last one, Sgt. John M. Hilton, the radio operator, died in 1999.) That’s our source for the name of the plane.

Miduppergunner - you and I seem indeed to have lived rather parallel lives! I had the pleasure of spending several weeks working in the National Maritime Museum when I was in grad school, back in the fall of 1978. I was fairly well acquainted with a gentleman I’ll bet you knew: David Lyon, longtime head of the Draught Room. I met him over drinks at the Cricketer’s, around the corner from the NMM; a few years later he paid a visit to the Mariners’ Museum, where I was working, and we spent an afternoon crawling around the interstices of the old liner S.S. United States. If my wife and I get to England next summer, perhaps we can get together with you.