Disregarding scale, any thoughts on plastic kits/conversions to make a B-17E in 1/48 and/or 1/72 scales?
If I’m reading the instructions correctly, the old Koster vacuform conversion for the 1/48 R/M B-17F requires only the addition of the nose glazing. I’m not aware of any complete kits in 1/48 for the E model.
Talking about complete kits, what about the old Revell 1/72 B-17E? Didn’t Frog and Academy do one in that scale?
There is no 1/48 B-17E currently on the market. Two primary differences betwen an early B-17F and the E the nose glazing, and on the early E, there was no manned ball turret, instead there was a remote control turret similar to that used on the early B-25. Dunring the E production run, it was later changed to the manned ball also found on the F and G. I am not positive, but I also beleive that the E had a different style propellor blade type.
in 1/72, yes Academy did a very nice E. The Revell E is nearly 40 years old and only differs from their F of the same vintage in the nose glazing. A very basic kit typical of that era, that will look like a B-17, but is not up to the standards of the Academy kit. I have no knowledge of the Frog kit.
stikpusher,
That’s helpful info. I’d really like to stay with 1/48 but unless something better is found, I may just go with the Academy kit.
Well depending on how much you want to send or scratch build, if you want one in 1/48, use the Revell F as a starting point, get yourself the nose glazing, and if you really feel so inclined. many of the interior parts, engines, etc. from the old Monogram G can be used to improve the kit. Many of the parts from the Monogram G are reputed to fit on the Revell F.
The cowls were different on the E as well, IIRC…
I believe that was the D and previous models that had different cowlings- no cooling flaps on those earlier models.
Yeah, knew that, but wasn’t the cowl’s leading edge different on the E as well? (I gotta dig out m’ Fort book…)
F cowlings were shortened from E cowlings to allow for the new paddlebladed props to be feathered as they had wider blades. B and C models had no cowl flaps, as they were introduced on D models.
There were several differences from the E to the F or the G. I would not recommend using the G as a donor kit as you will have to backdate the kit a lot. First the nose glazing is unique to the E, the dorsal turret was a Bendix remote controlled turret and there are four viewing windows in the belly for it, the cowlings are different and the propellers are narrow chord pieces. The cheek windows in the nose are all small windows unlike the F which had two small and one large on each side or the G which had large protruding cheek windows. I built a 1/48 B-17E a few years ago using the Paragon conversion which you can still get directly from paragondesigns@hotmail.co.uk and found it to be a very nice kit that fit very well when applied to one of the old Revell B-17Fs. You can see the complete build feature here … http://swannysmodels.com/B17Ebuild.html
That’s the cowl shot I needed… It WAS the leading edge that stuck in m’ mind…
With the Revell re-release of “The Memphis Belle”, it should work ok…
Ya gotta love this place for the things you can learn. It never occured to me that cowl dimensions would change due to different prop blade types.
Swanny that is a beautiful E Fort! If I had the room, I would love to do another (I have a G built an F in the stash already) I would do an E in the markings of the type used at Midway- they had some very unique and colorful camo schemes.
I have another E planned in the near future to do in Midway markings but am having trouble finding any good images of the schemes used. If you have any info and care to share it would be greatly appreciated. At the moment I have three 1/48 B-17s hanging from the model room ceiling. Once the YB-40 is complete I was considering rehanging them to start a box formation then could hang the various Allied and Axis fighters swarming around them.
I have a ceiling fan in my model room that takes up a serious portion of the available air space there… LOL! More dangerous to any Forts than a schwarm of Tamiya Wurgers…
The Squadron/Signal books Air Force Colors Voume 1 and Volume 3 have a few shots and one color profile (side view only) of those B-17s. Volume 1 has a photo on p.93 of one taking off, the camo scheme can partially be made out. This photo has appeared in many books about Midway. It also has the single side color profile on p.80. Volume 3 has three great photos on p.10, including one of “Old Maid”, which according to author Dana Bell, was flown by Col Sweeny at Midway. There also is a brief description of the colors used in the narrative and the origin of the scheme at the Hawaiian Air Depot. According to the book, at least 10 B-17Es were camoed there in this distinctive scheme in late 1941-early 1942.
I will have to check my library to see if I have any other sources on this.
Weren’t the Midway Forts painted for the RAF?
According to Dana Bell’s books, it was a local scheme from the Hawaiian Air Depot that were applied over the standard OD/Neutral Gray scheme.
Swanny, great job on the Brit Fort! I will also be using the Paragon resin/vacuform set but I may leave the remote turret off and go with the standard ball turret. (I found one for a very reasonable price – LOL – on eBay.) My sources show that all of the B-17E were produced at the Vega plant and a note from Boeing indicated that all aircraft including and after 41-2505 had the ball turret. That means all of them in the first 1/3 of the production run had the remote turret while the remaining 2/3 had the ball turret. I want to build an E model that was captured by the Japanese but none of the photos show the belly so, I guess I’ll play the percentages and use a ball turret unless someone has information to the contrary.
On the prop question, I’m wondering if the original narrow blades that are in the R/M C-47 would work…I’ll have to see if I have any left. (I was building Vietnam era C-47s with the wider blade prop and swapped most/all of the ones I had.) Swanny’s idea about using the clay as a jig is a good one which I’ll try if I wind up using the Paragon blades.
In some of the E model photos I look at, it seems like the forward-most bombardier’s side windows are a bit smaller than the two aft of them. Can anyone confirm/deny that?
BTW, wasn’t someone was asking about B-17 toilets the other day? I found a Boeing drawing of a B-17F that shows a cylindrical toilet on the fuselage centerline just forward of the tail landing gear structure up against the #7 bulkhead.
Ed, here is a link to a B-17E w/Japanese markings. It appears to have the remote turret.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/japanese%20b-17/Warplane/B-17-Japanese-markings.jpg
Frog produced 1/72 kit of the B-17E. I believe it was the last kit they produced before they went out of business. I have one in the stash and other than less interior detail and perhaps the MLG (neither of which are insurmountable problems), it compares very well with the Hasagawa F.
stikpusher,
As Ed McMahon used to say on the Johnny Carson Show, “You, sir, are correct, sir!” Thar she blows!! THANKS! Well, I guess I’m using the whole Paragon converstion set, then.
Too bad the Imperial Japanese Airforce didn’t keep records like the Luftwaffe did. I’d sure like to know the tail numbers of the B-17’s they did get. The only one I can document was a B-17D, s/n 40-3095.
A correction for you ipmsfl, all E models were Boeing built. B-17F’s were built by BVD pool, Boeing, Lockheed-Vega and Douglas. And there were 112 E’s built with the remote turret before when they decided to use the ball turret. Check the AF Museum photos as they have a nice color shot of an early E model in color. It is definitely and early one has it has no serial on the tail.