Are we all just re-incarnated WWII vets.....????

Modeling Subjects Armor
21

I remember having a similar conversation long time ago, re - fascination with the German WW2 machinery, but in the context of wargaming. Why did most (?) wargamers chose to play german sides? First, you have to intellectually differentiate the machine and tactics from the context (Nazi Germany in all its repugnancy). WW2 is far enough that we can safely separate both entities, while not forgetting history lessons. Therefore, you are able to 'safely" take the persona of Guderian or Rommel and see if you can “do better” (tactically) in a wargame; its the “offensive” side, has cool equipment, and ample of tactical oportunities. A similar analogy can be said for German WW2 AFV modelling. The equipment is varied, “cool”, of an “offensive” nature (tactical not aesthetic!), and gives modellers a variety of choices (of paint jobs, etc).

However, we have to keep in mind the sensitivities and historical context of Nazi Germany. Most wargames diverge historically to avoid SS units (if possible), and so on. Many modellers who fret and strive at historical accuracy of a vehicle will, on the other hand, skip the placement of a swastika on the aircraft tail. Its a matter of personal choice, and how well you have differentiated the “military simulation” (game or model) from the historico-political context.

one final Off-Topic quick comment, on a few responses who stated that WW2 was clearly “good vs evil”. I had a conversation with a WW2 historian some time ago, he wrote an essay in which he proposed that WW2 was not the “clear cut” good/evil dichotomy that we usually assume. His argument was that USA/Britain western front was the “B team”, and that the REAL war was fought in the eastern front between two EVIL totalitarian regimes… just a little bit food for thought!

Cheers

22

Manny, “And thank you for your support”[swg]. If I did not do the M8 which is my WIP now in winter camo, I would have used one of the Italian campagin camo schemes.

The US/allied sidei s not an OD problem, it is the kit availability, which Shemans us to death. There is a lack of creativity from the manufacturers. Plus, we the market has bought into it.

A good example is the modern US armor. To cash in on OIF we will luck out and get every version of the Stryker, Hummer, Bradley etc. Without OIF I don’t think half those kits would be made but they are really nice kits.

The only manufacurer who may have bucked that was Italeri who made many US kits even when the US military was unpopular.

If you looked in my stash, most of the kits are Italeri, AFV and Academy. Most of the kits on the “Germaholic” shelf are Tamiya and Dragon/DML.

I’m rambling…I must be possessed by a voice from the past…I think it is an executive of Revell or Monogram who is calling me from the other side…[:-^]

Rounds Complete!!

23

A lot of great answers on here… Kudos to all. I feel that when you boil it down we do build “killing machines”. To me war is one of the ultimate expressions of of human interaction and emotion and I therefor cannot remove the human factor from it. I therefore always build my models (aircraft and armor) with a figure. One it adds a sense of scale and two and perhaps more importantly it reminds others (if not, then me at least) of this destructive human endeavor. That said, when I do build German, Japanese, Italian, North Korean, NVA subjects I realize that the ones who go to do the killing in these machines (and be killed) are not the same people who ordered them to do so… I believe your average German, Japanese, Italian, etc. did so because he had the same sense of patriotism, honor, and self preservation that we on the “good side” had. This Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine additionally had more immeidate concerns on his mind outisde of mulling over the “worthiness” of his cause. “Where is that damn part I ordered”, “I wonder what kind of “chow” they’re going to give me tonight”, “I hope my sweetheart/kids/family survived that air raid last night”, “Does my buddy have any smokes left”, “When is this damn war going to be over and we can go home”. These are why I build a particular subject, because I put that vehicle in the context of those who directly operated and fought in them. Supporting a political cause is the farthest thing from my mind when building a Tiger or Bf-109.

24

As a kid I was fascinated with all things military. I served as a Marine during the late Vietnam and early post war era, '71-'79. I simply dissassociated myself from that part of my life for years as my now ex wife refused to listen to anything related to my experiences. She would not allow me to tell the kids the true answer to the all to common “what did you do in the war daddy?” question.

My return to modelling was due to the fact that I found a set of decals which represented my police departments then current markings. It took off from there. I built NOTHING of a military nature until I began a series of 120mm figs. depicting Marines through the history of the Corps. Semper Fi.

Participating in this forum allowed me to rethink my position and I finally began a tank. A slow painful build, but things have changed since I was 14. [;)]

My current wife finally got me to talk, but it took a few drinks. The figures, and her willingness to listen has helped me a lot. Believe it or not but talking with the Gulf War vets when they rejoined the PD was genuinely a God send.

I think thats all I got to say about that.

25

Gentlemen: I respect the way you handled this topic, and I am intrigued by all the intelligent answers, thank you. I am still probing my gray matter, for MY own answer. It has nothing to do with being the “bad guy”, and the color schemes and variants aren’t the reason either…hmmm, I will throw on a robe and slippers, smoke a pipe (tobacco) and ponder it some more…

26

Smoke a Pipe…[:O]…If your into Armor you need a good Cigar[;)]

Rounds Complete!!

27

I believe I was involved in the Battle of Kharkov…

28

There’s just something amazing about some near indestructible German leviathan that appeals to me. Allied tanks just weren’t as robust ( for the most part). I guess I’ve always liked modelling menacing subjects and you have to admit -a 60 ton cat (tiger) taking down a column of shermans is pretty amazing… But then… so is a rocket laden typhoon or thunderbolt appearing over the horizon!

29

Back when I was in the Army (seems like a thousand years ago, but really it was more like 18), I remember someone saying that we had more in common with Russian paratroopers than with American politicians.

So I’ve always held the belief that an enemy soldier isn’t necessarily something to be reviled. If he must be destroyed, well that’s what we train for, but he’s still human. And he cleans his rifle just like I do (did). A German soldier wasn’t necessarily a Nazi war criminal, a Soviet Spetz soldier wasn’t necessarily a Communist, etc. Years later, when I started going to model shows and people would sometimes ask me what’s up with all the Nazi tanks, that was my standard answer. Tanks aren’t Nazis. Nazis are Nazis. Tanks are just tanks.

With that in mind, I think my military fascination started early on, and has continued through the years. War and killing aside (which is really only a small part of the military life), the military is a perfectly respectable profession, no matter what they think in Berkeley - and I’ve always felt that military people, equipment, vehicles, etc, should be admired and celebrated.

I like the German stuff because of the wide variety of equipment, the often wild paint schemes, and the flat amazing techniques I’ve learned for trying to pull off a believable Zimmerit pattern, etc. Don’t get me wrong, I can get all inspired by a well-built and well-painted Shermie, too - but if you’re gonna build German stuff, you’re gonna have to learn alot of new stuff, and you’re gonna have to create some pretty crazy builds.

Who’d have ever thought that there would be a country that goes to war with camouflaged battleships and battleship-gray tanks? Or, yellow tanks with hand-sprayed lines all over them? Just a couple of examples of why I like the German stuff.

Anyway, just my take on it.

~J

30

Agreed… I quote Bill Mauldin:

“People back home will say, ‘It’s not the Germans, it’s the Nazis.’. But a dogface won’t say, ‘Those dirty Nazis.’. He’ll say, ‘Goddamn Krauts.’. You may hear a dogface call a German soldier a skunk, but you’ll never hear him say he’s not good…”-Bill Mauldin in his book, Up Front

31

I’m with ya on the building of US vehicles. I’m a former Cavalry Officer and have more of an interest in Modern American AFVs. Mainly the ones I’ve worked on, commanded soldiers and crews, driven, used in my job, etc.