Are we all just re-incarnated WWII vets.....????

Modeling Subjects Armor
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Guys: What is this fascination with WWII vehicles…ESPECIALLY the ones of our enemies!!! Put aside the kid mentality that they’re massive, cool, butt-kicking hunks of steel and dig a bit deeper in your gray matter and really think about it. This isn’t blasphemy in the religious sense or modeling sense because I share this fascination with you. It just hit me as a question to ask you guys after thinking about what my Father-in -Law said about my builds. Don’t mis-understand, he’s a great man and has attended more than one model contest with me and my boys…but he called the builds 'killing machines". My retort was, well thank G*d we had such machines and men who were brave enough to drive them or we both wouldn’t be here or we’d be speaking German.

I could understand it more if we only built allied vehicles and rallied our patriotic side in honor of those who have fallen, but GERMAN armor!!!..again, I am in this group, I tend towards the German builds as do the majority of us here…so what gives? I for one thank G*d I never had to live the life of a tank crewman, but I still love tanks. Neither do I have ANY sort of longing or wish I could have fought in WWII to “see what it was like”.

Please share any thoughts…

SMJmodeler

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Speaking for me and me alone here… I’m not really pro war except for national defense, but I still find the machines brought about and used during war times very fascinating. For me, it’s all about the vehicle itself. I build only what I think looks cool, ignoring (99% of the time) the human factor involved, regardless which side used it. Sometimes there is a neat history to go along with the vehicle, something that a crew member did while in the vehicle, but that doesn’t add much to it for me except a neat story while I’m researching. I’ll also add people, but that is more for scale than anything. This attitude is associated with all my builds, not just tanks, either.

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Wow How great minds run alike. My thoughts lately have ran a course similar to you line of questioning. I would like be there, at least you knew who the enemy was, who was your brother in arms and who your friends are. Im not saying that I dont know who my friends are but with all the things going on in the world and in politics, I at least know where I stand with the folks in this forum. My thoughts are a result of the problems that I am currently going through. But in the time around WWII these things were NOT a problem. I do believe it was a time of honesty and honor and pride in doing the right thing for the good of all not just the one. Well thats my 2-cents worth, probably not worth 2 cents. Thanks!!!

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Well, I’m mostly of German/Austrian heritage, so I take a interest in the countries past, even before WW I. I grew up in the 60’s and there were many WW II movies going at the time. So my interest gravitated to the war. As I learned more I became intrigued in the Eastern Front and thought the German armor was diversed with all it’s different sized tanks with cool camo schemes. I, of course, think that the big cats are the bomb. I still do. LOL

I also feel there is a fascination with the bad guy, whether it’s in the movies or history.

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…interesting consideration…

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Hummmm…now I am the minority here in that I stick strictly to US equipment…soooo does that mean maybe I am re-incarnated from Patton or his staff (being as arrogant as I am)…[:-^] Since I concentrate on artillery and support equipment and being a retired artillery officer, maybe more like Gen McAuliffe, an artillery officer who tells the German’s nuts

I was arrogant…now I’m perfect [swg]

LOL…a Manny type, thought

Rounds Complete!!

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LOL…well, let’s see…I think part of it is “escapism” on many of our parts…the romantic notion of living in a simpler era where good and evil were EASILY distinguishable, and there was a sense of fighting for something bigger than ones-self…Also, I gotta believe that we would all like to live vicariously through our hobby at some level and imagine what WE would do if we were sitting in the hatch…Also, I think we all realize that most cool chicks dig tanks—then and now…

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All interesting thoughts. And valid. I especially agree with you Manny-it was a time when a generation put their self-interest aside and made supreme sacrifices for greater cause.

In my case though, it is also a recent & growing interest in history, especially WW II history and the quote (and I can’t remember who said it at the moment) “Those who fail to remember the past are doomed to repeat it”…or something to that effect.

As far as the interest in Axis vehicles, I had a former co-worker/modeler share with me his thoughts-that there is a greater (and cooler) variety of Axis armor & planes (especially camo schemes) than on the Allied side.

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I agree that there’e a greater variety of german armor than any other country in the WWII era. Five panzers with multiple variants, two tigers, TONS of tank destroyers, COUNTLESS variants of both the 250/ and the 251/ half tracks, 4 rads, 6 rads, 8 rads, artillery, anti tank guns, AA platform conversions, supply vehicles, and all sorts of interesting one-offs, or atleast rare vehicles.

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Yep, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell… go with the variety. Although, when I built airplanes as a kid, it was primarily US/British stuff. Go figure…

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I was a Field Artilleryman for the first half of my Army career, much of it in M109s as a cannoneer, gunner, and Section Chief, so I’ve always had a thing for armored vehicles. One of the things about tanks and other armored vehicles is that they become your home in the field. Everything, and I mean everything you do revolves around the track and it’s gun, it being the reason for your existance. During Desert Shield/Desert Storm, we finally painted names on our howitzers. (I was in Charlie Battery, so the name had to start with a “C”, likewise, Alpha and Bravo Batteries had to start with “A” and “B” respectively.) “Chemical Dependency” and my accompanying FAASV, “Chooch” were me and my crew’s home for months. You can get attached to the track real quick.

One of the main reasons I build German armor is that there was so much of it, in so many different types and sub-types, that you can model German armor for years with duplication. Shermans and Stuarts get a bit old after a while, as did the Grants, Lees, Cromwells, etc…

I also have a predilection towards the “bad guys”, since I prefer not only German armor, but aircraft as well… Again, the numerous variations are a key factor. Add to it that I’m a WW2 German reenactor as well, since it’s “more fun” being the “bad guy” at events. So no, I don’t think I’m reincarnated, but if I were, I must be Michael Wittman, or perhaps, Der Stern von Afrika, Hans-Joachim Marseille…

Nah…

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I’d like to think it’s a variery/ colour scheme thing - after all, there is a limit to the number of ways you can credibly interpret Olive Drab.

However, I do wonder, when obscure German subjects which were only produced in very limited numbers (or, in the case of some of the Panzertruppe '46 stuff now coming onto the market, not produced at all), have been done to death, while we are still waiting for, among others, a scale-accurate 1/35 Churchill or 5.5" Gun/ Howitzer, if there might not be other reasons for the preponderance of German stuff.

Cheers,

Chris.

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WWII was the archetypical model for what has today become a standared Hollywood theme–the Great “Good vs Evil” uber-battle. The four players–

“The Good”–the USA

“The Bad”–The Third Reich

“The Ugly”–pick one; the sneaky friend/betrayer in Ruusia, or the aging, has-been, “old man” (Britain) shown up by the young upstarts…nothing political here, no offense intended; I mean it strictlyin the sense that GB was an “old” superpower losing it’s colonial possessions and much of it’s power n the 40’s.

The “good vs evil” thing has been played out in so many movies since, in various guises; the most obvious being “Star Wars”. It’s hard to deny the appeal.

I relate to German armor just because it looks so cool. and the nefarious intent ascribed to it, but also the heroism and noble aspirations of many of the “regular guys” who survived and fought under almost impossible conditions. I can’t lie either; I just think the configurations, varieties, and color schemes of the German Armor was so much cooler than any Allied stuff.

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As for your father in law or others who view military models as killing machines, there are just as many people of that generation and ours who see it as fascinating. At the 2008 AMPS International show, we had two WW2 tankers speak to our audience, a German Pz III/IV/Stug III commander and a Churchill wireless operator. They spoke at length about their machines, the tactics and lots of minutae of the war. They certainly weren’t put off by the models on the tables. They immensely enjoyed them. As an unexpected treat, we presented each of them with models of tanks they fought in – a Tamiya Pz III ausf L kit painted w/Eastern Front 2nd Panzer Division markings and a Cromwell Models Churchill V with homemeade decals of the North Irish Horse in Italy.

I think it’s just one of those things – and we can’t fault people for how they view things. I have zero interest in cars (models or the real thing – does it drive and is there gas in it?). None. However WW2 armor holds me fast (US then German then British). Then WW2 Luftwaffe a/c. Just a preference thing for me. [dinner]

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I think I started out as a kid who was highly exposed to all the TV shows and old B&W movies of the late 60s early 70s when I started building models. Sot it was very much a case of buiding cool models of good guys and bad guys. But as it evelolved and I got more into the history of it, I began building to depict certain events/units. Of course once I built that subject it needed an opponent, wether it be a Tiger vs T-34/76, M4 vs Mk IV, or Merkava vs T-62A. My fascination with Soviet armor began as a young TOW gunner back in the Reagan years and continued thru the fall of the Soviet empire and the Iron Curtain-new shades of the good guy/bad guy face off and all the offshoot wars that resulted. Me personally being a reincarnated WWII vet? A nice thought, but who was I…??? There are so many I would like to have been…

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Always an interesting question that comes up from time to time…and while there are lots of potential reasons out there as to why German gear is more popular and gets more attention, I can only relate my own reasons for choosing it.

When I started out modelling Armor, I actually had a wider interest in both Allied and Axis gear. I’m a trained historian and former teacher, so the historical influence of WW2 was a natural draw since I’d already done extensive reading and education on that subject. What gravitated me towards German armor were 2 things; 1) the realization that as I progressed in the hobby I needed to “choose” a specialty in order to focus acquisition of reference material, kits, etc. as “buying and building everything” was rapidly producing a variety of economic, logistical, and chronological issues and 2) the variety and kit availability of the subject matter in the chosen path of specialty tipped the balance in favor of German vs. Allied.

I’ve never really cared that much about building “Wittman’s Tiger” or other such personalized vehicles but understand why others do. Instead I prefer to personalize the build in my own way and very rarely try to replicate a specific vehicle although I do like to pursue accuracy where reasonable depending on the project in question. The Tigers and Panthers actually hold very little interest for me as a rule, I only have a handful of “big cat” kits in the stash and am much more interested in the earlier war and odd-ball type of designs.

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I dont really know what got me started and like what Wbill76 said i’m not really all that into depictions of actual tanks but will paint how they are supposed to look. The allied stuff gets boring almost all is OD

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I guess I will continue to present the opposing opinion.

I agree with Bill in that if you try and do it all you will need a warehouse, unlimited funds and unlimited time so concentration is important.

As far as the German camo vs Allied OD, well if you stay within the WWII era (which I don’t) even with OD there is winter, numerous markings and numerous details that can be added to break up the color,but…it is an artistic choice. If you go beyound WWII you get into numerous other paint patterns.

Cool looking…well for the general stuff, I will give you that but as Bill said if you go beyound the general stuff to the strange and obtuse…both sides have interesting stuff.

I was an artillery officerfrom the 70s through the 90s. My father-in law was an artillery officer from the 40s through the 60s, thus my interest in WWII to present artillery and support equipment. This includes the obtuse of AA Artillery, Missile, Mortar, and support…No Tanks.

For me because of the time span and coverage of equipment I have loads of intersting different vehicles with great paint patterns to make me happy.

SOOOOOO…I guess with some other guys like Rob, Gino and others, we will remain the minority, but as cool as some German equipment is…the new M1128 MGS Stryker with its 105mm gun and slat armor…COOOOOL.

This has been a message from the US/Allied moral minority in armor scale building. [:-^] Remember…you can not have a debate unless there are two opposing views.

Lastly let me say that we need BOTH sides building so WE keep the model companies honest, fresh, and diverse. There are many “cool” things they are attemting on the German side. I wish they would do the same on the allied/US side…not just another Sherman. That might spur more interest in the “minority” and also help to expand the hobby

That’s just my opinion…I could be wrong.

Rounds Complete!!

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No, you aren’t wrong…in fact, if you look at the Med theatre (especially Sicily and Italy) there are some VERY colorful and cool Allied schems…some so cool I have them on my “want” list…and with the DML M2 halftrack now out (and the M3) it may not be too far in coming (that M2 is a gorgeous kit)…besides, we Germaholics have to have something to shoot at…

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WOW! All these hardcore answers! I just think that all the vehicles are interesting and thats why I build them. I believe in the KISS method of things for the most part. I’m not a re-carnated WWII vet but I am a Gulf War vet.