Are acrylic paints really that different?

General Discussion General Modeling Discussion
1

Dear All,

Thanks to my son’s Warhammer 40,000 stuff, I’m getting back into the hobby after 30 years. Thankfully, my attempt to prime the 1./48 SE5a went very smoothly. But as I move to the brush for the smaller parts, I’m surprised how thin the acrylic paints are.

Case in point, I was just paining the exhaust system with Tamiya metallic brown and, though the part was primed, it really did not want to cover. Sometimes the second brush stroke would remove the paint that was already there. It went the same way with the radiator and Model Color brand sky blue.

I shook the bleep out of the metallic brown and stirred it with a toothpick if that matters.

Am I doing something wrong or are acrylic paints very different from the enamels I grew up with.

Thanks!

Jeff

2

Hello Jeff,

yes, the acrylic paints are different, When hand brushing Tamiya paints, I first dip my brush in rubbing alcohol ,then in the paint, and continue this process as needed for proper flow. I also add a couple of drops of flow improver to the jar of paint ( this can be obtained at a craft store in the art section )

3

Jeff some other Acrylic manufacturers paint a little better than Tamiya but enamel paints such as Model Master are much better using a brush. Each paint/manufacturer has their plus and minuses just depends on your task. We also have a Paint section in the Forums thats very informative try asking questions there, we have a lot of very talented modelers who are more than willing to help you out. Terry

4

It’s interesting that different modelers have so many different experiences with different products. I paint with a brush almost exlusively (sailing ships and occasional warships), and I’ve been a big fan of acrylics for about 35 years.

What hooked me was my early experience with PolyS paint. (Anybody else remember it?) initially I hated it, but I discovered two things about it. 1. Brushing it took some practice and a good brush. 2. Whereas with enamels and lacquers I’d get tired of the workbench after three or four hours, with acrylics I’d have to tear myself away after six or seven. I had no idea the smell of solvents was such a big deal till it stopped.

When PolyS was replaced by PolyScale, I made the switch too. No that PolyScale is gone, I’m shifting to Vallejo. It’s good stuff, but it’s taking me a while to get used to it. (Another brand I really like is Lifecolor, but its range is smaller.) I only use enamels when I don’t have any choice. (I have yet to find a really good acrylic gold or silver - though they may be out there.)

I’ve used plenty of Testor’s Acryl. It’s ok, but I like PolyScale and Vallejo better. I’ve tried Tamiya acrylics, but I don’t get along with them. And I don’t have any experience with Gunze Sangyo.

None of this is intended to suggest that there’s anything wrong with enamels. Some fine modelers get spectacular results with them. But I urge any brush painter to try acrylics. Your nose will thank you - and, once you’ve developed a decent technique, so will your models.

5

Wow! This really is a great community. Some of the runner’s forums are brutal! So I want to offer a huge thank you to every who responded.

With some of your feedback and persevering in my weekend SE5a painting efforts here’s what I’ve concluded:

  1. Acrylics generally are more suited and set up for airbrushing. Enamels are better for hand brushing those small parts.

  2. The Tamiya metallic brown was actually too thick. Mr. Jay’s suggestion to use a flow improver would’ve worked out a lot better.

  3. You really have to shake the crap out of acrylic paints.

  4. Per JTilley and jtibber, acrylics differ by brand! The Model Master acrylics are even thinner than the Model Color brand and require at least two coats. You also have to be a bit more careful applying them because they can run a little bit.

And if any of you experts have any other basic model painting tips I’d be happy to hear them.

6

For what it’s worth, I disagree with the generalization that acrylics are better for airbrushing and enamels are better for hand-brushing. That just hasn’t been my experience. Some of the best models I’ve ever seen were airbrushed with enamels, and I’m hooked on hand-brushed acrylics.

I have the impression that, though their literature doesn’t always make it clear, some brands of acrylic are formulated to work best in airbrushes. I’ve never encountered anybody who was really happy with Tamiya paint for hand-brushing. I can’t recall reading anything at all about Gunze paints for hand-brushing. Vallejo makes two different, enormous ranges, one for spraying and one for hand-brushing.

My best suggestion: try several brands, give Each of them a fair chance, and buy some more of the one you like best.

7

It’s good to have these discussions so we can describe our experiences. Tamiya paints don’t seem to cooperate too well when hand brushing. Vallejo hand brushes ok but seems to go on better if an enamel primer is used first.

I have better results using enamels both hand brushing and air brushing. With enamels I can thin my paint, dial down to 5-8 psi and shoot hair line mottling all day long. I can’t get the same effect with acrylics.

I have also discovered that for acrylics (specially MM) to properly bond, you need to prime with a solvent base primer. Tamiya paint is the only exception that seems to work pretty good without any primer and sprays well in the air brush.

You will just have to experiment and see which one will work best for you.

8

Tamiya is famous for being the quickest drying during brushpainting. I am sure that people that try Tamiya as their only acrylic are the ones that run back to enamels and say that acrylics don’t work.

I was a long time enamel user,and switched to acrylics. Unlike Jtilley, I didn’t have a good experience with PolyS, so I stayed away for a long time. PollyScale is a different matter, I tried those, Lifecolor and Vallejo as my first foray into acrylics a couple of years ago.

I am sold on Pollyscale, Aeromaster and Lifecolor, and use Vallejo/Italeri for the few colors that I have no choice.

The key to acrylics is to use a primer,and to never, not once, go back over your work when it is still wet. We weren’t “supposed to” with enamels, either, but, you still could “work” the paint a bit,now, with acrylics that is a big mistake.

People complain about the “learning curve” with Acrylics,but, that is because they forgot that they spent years,maybe decades,perfecting their enamel painting before, then they got used to it, and now they have to do things a little differently.

Airbrush Acrylics with a Slow dryer (some enamels require a “drying speeder-upper”), and airbrush and handbrush acrylics with a flow enhancer, some thinners include those things in them already, be careful of how much more you add separately. (enamels get flow enhanced by the thinner itself, and “speeded-up” by spraying with lacquer thinner) The “enamels only” camp likes to point out that you have to use slow dri and flow enhancer in Acrylics,and conveniently leaves out the part where they use “Japan drier” and Lacquer thinner to speed up their drying and enhance the paint’s adhesion.

If you use something like Badger’s new primer, you don’t have to use “smelly” paints at all,primer, thinner, paint, clear-coat, all can be “safe for your nose” (except for the paint particles in the air, that stays the same, wear at least a dust mask when spraying acrylics)

If you want some Pollyscale or Aeromaster,go on Ebay or Amazon and type " Floquil Polly scale " or " Floquil Aeromaster " and you will find vendors selling the paints.

We are all going to be using AKAN or Misterkit’s formula one day soon,true water soluble paints that don’t have additives in them requiring a “house thinner” to work right.

Rex

9

Tamiya’s acrylics are not really acrylics, per se. They are an acrylic-lacquer bland, and not ideally suited for brushing,. In fact, they’re rather well-known NOT to be good brushing paint. They are ideally suited for airbrushing, and their ratio out of the bottle reflects that. There’s not many that can compete with them for airbrushing quality and toughness once they cure. I use them almost exclusively,. For brush painting, I use Model Master, or even craft store paints.

If you want to use them for brush painting of small parts, they’re fine. You have to keep them “wet on the brush” though. They dry very quickly if you don’t.

10

Dear All,

Again, thank you for making me fell welcome and thank you for all of the excellent tips!

Jeff

11

I brush paint exclusively (as I don’t have an airbrush.)

I really like Vallejo for brush painting…I might not be the best at it, but the paint goes down well.

12

When Tamiya first introduced their acrylic paints in the early 80’s, they were perfect. They hand-brushed very nicely and, went down silky-smooth. They self-levelled beautifully and a skilled painter could produce results almost comparable to an airbrushed finish.

Then in the mid-80’s, the formula changed and they’ve been a pain to brush-paint ever since.

They can still be brush-painted with a little care. As mentioned above, slightly moisten the brush with thinner before dipping in the paint and add about 30% thinner (one part thinner to 3 parts paint) to the paint before starting.

BTW: Tamya’s acrylics are indeed true acrylics. The acrylic base of the paint’s binder makes it so. It’s largely irrelevant what the thinner/reducer is, it’s the chemical structure of the paint’s binder that’s important and in the case of Tamiya’s acrylic paints, it’s primarily an acrylic base (I say primarily because I’m not sure if there are any co-polymers involved).

13

In my experience, the best airbrush-able acrylic is Tamiya and the best paintbrush-able acrylic is Vallejo.

14

I agree with Chrisk about Vallejo Acrylics for handbrushing; they are smooth and cover very well.

15

Tamiya paint does act funny when you hand-brush it.